I''m happy because it''ll hopefully bring out the gaming crowd in this university town that I live in. Tournaments would be awesome. If this thing will succeed at all it''s my bet that it would be because of tournaments and because it''s located in a growing college town. As for availability of Internet access, I''m writing this post on a 1.0 to 5.0 kbps connection to my university''s modem pool. It really stinks, yet I can''t afford to even think about paying for a service (broadband or normal) that would let me play Internet multiplayer games, although I do remember playing a round of some multiplayer asteroids-style game (can''t remember name of game, Subspace???). There were a lot of hiccups though as I recall. Such is a student''s life, eh?
joeG
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Multiplayer games and home networks!
Ooh, this was just too neat not to post.
Last week I brought the family mini-van in to get the AC fixed. While I was waiting I walked over to Staples to bide my time. Found a compilation of games called "Ultimate Sci-Fi Series." In it was Dune 2000, so I bought it because I knew both my dad and brother would like it.
Turns out, you can play multiplayer games with a disc in ust one computer! You have to do a full install, but, hey, it''s better than what most companies do
It was developed by Westwood Studios, so I''m guessing that the Red-Alert series would probably run the same way.
Last week I brought the family mini-van in to get the AC fixed. While I was waiting I walked over to Staples to bide my time. Found a compilation of games called "Ultimate Sci-Fi Series." In it was Dune 2000, so I bought it because I knew both my dad and brother would like it.
Turns out, you can play multiplayer games with a disc in ust one computer! You have to do a full install, but, hey, it''s better than what most companies do
It was developed by Westwood Studios, so I''m guessing that the Red-Alert series would probably run the same way.
On one hand - some publishers barely scrape by the skin of their teeth seeling games for 80-90 (australian) dollars at the shelf and I can imagine those hundreds of thousands of dollars in profit must be real awkward. (sarcasm)
Publishers make alot, developers make very little, consumers get ripped off having to pay twice the amount just to play the game with someone in the same house, in the same family.
Sure, both people could play the game on their own, but not together. Seems kinda stupid and stingy to me. I just pirate the things if they don''t ship a "client" CD cause the publishers pockets are deep enough as it is and I''ve already made my donation to their "excellent" (rip-off) service.
As you can see, i have slight hostility towards publishers.
Actually, the reason for that is more or less because they force developers to release products before they are ready which means the game doesn''t get the polish it needs to be made great.
Publishers make alot, developers make very little, consumers get ripped off having to pay twice the amount just to play the game with someone in the same house, in the same family.
Sure, both people could play the game on their own, but not together. Seems kinda stupid and stingy to me. I just pirate the things if they don''t ship a "client" CD cause the publishers pockets are deep enough as it is and I''ve already made my donation to their "excellent" (rip-off) service.
As you can see, i have slight hostility towards publishers.
Actually, the reason for that is more or less because they force developers to release products before they are ready which means the game doesn''t get the polish it needs to be made great.
Author
joeG,
Internet Cafes are a cool idea, but they are a bitch to run and make a profit. Unless you become big have multiple stores and sponsors etc, you will end up living in a small room in the cafe, running it from 12pm to 12am.
I may have read this wrong, but you are intending to open your own cafe?
Me and a friend sat down and gave the thing a very serious thought back in 1996. Profit/Loss forcasts, initial layout the whole nine yards. Things went tits up and we never took the idea any further.
But if you do go for it thing to note.
Expect to have NO life but the cafe for at least a year
and NO money for even longer!
You will not survive on the computers/network alone.
Half our predicted income was going to come from food/drink/beverages. So when looking for a place remember you'll need to supply food for these hungry gamers. Cheep nasty microwave food or hotplate with you (who else) cooking!!
We also intended to do special events. The site we had our eye on was quite large so we where thinking local bands and suff aswell as competitions.
Start small
With hindsight we propbally would have lost a lot of money cause our site was so large.
Back room
Have somewhere where you can have Tragic:the slobering players and roleplayers. Niether have a lot of money but they will be loyal.
Don't become Cleaky
Roleplay, comic shops and i-cafes are all places that can become cleaky very quickly. Cleaky is when someone who is not from the group of regulars feels uncomfortable. If someone (anyone) can not come in talk to the staff with out feeling uncomfortable you have a cleaky atmosphere and IT WILL kill the shop/cafe/whatever! It killed the Trading Post in Nottingham. Have regulars, have customers who are friends but keep them away from the counter and know when to walk away from them and talk to a customer!
I personally think internet cafes will not disapear. Fine, people are getting toll free internet access at home, ADSL is getting cheeper. But internet devices are satrting to encroch into so many things now. I think the internet cafe (and other cafes) will just evolve. There will still be hard core gaming places, because not every one has a home network (and I dont have two machines capable of running UT)
Topic has taken a left turn at Milton Kynes. (nicely avoided ;P
I like the idea of rewriting the EULA. As long as you send a copy to the publishers with something like "if you don't reply to this letter with in 14 days it will be accepted as an affirmative".
The EULA is unlike any other contract since it does not require a signiture (is that legal??) and you can not make ammendments. CDs and videos do not have a EULA, they just say you are breaking the law copying it.
I wonder how legally binding the EULA is? All these people taken to court and imprissoned is that due to normal copyright laws or because of the EULA??
Any way enough
I'm outa here
NeoReality
"its not my reality, i'm just looking after it for someone"
"This company has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down. If the problems persists, contact your vendor or appeal to a higher court."
Edited by - NeoReality on June 19, 2000 6:21:37 AM
Internet Cafes are a cool idea, but they are a bitch to run and make a profit. Unless you become big have multiple stores and sponsors etc, you will end up living in a small room in the cafe, running it from 12pm to 12am.
I may have read this wrong, but you are intending to open your own cafe?
Me and a friend sat down and gave the thing a very serious thought back in 1996. Profit/Loss forcasts, initial layout the whole nine yards. Things went tits up and we never took the idea any further.
But if you do go for it thing to note.
Expect to have NO life but the cafe for at least a year
and NO money for even longer!
You will not survive on the computers/network alone.
Half our predicted income was going to come from food/drink/beverages. So when looking for a place remember you'll need to supply food for these hungry gamers. Cheep nasty microwave food or hotplate with you (who else) cooking!!
We also intended to do special events. The site we had our eye on was quite large so we where thinking local bands and suff aswell as competitions.
Start small
With hindsight we propbally would have lost a lot of money cause our site was so large.
Back room
Have somewhere where you can have Tragic:the slobering players and roleplayers. Niether have a lot of money but they will be loyal.
Don't become Cleaky
Roleplay, comic shops and i-cafes are all places that can become cleaky very quickly. Cleaky is when someone who is not from the group of regulars feels uncomfortable. If someone (anyone) can not come in talk to the staff with out feeling uncomfortable you have a cleaky atmosphere and IT WILL kill the shop/cafe/whatever! It killed the Trading Post in Nottingham. Have regulars, have customers who are friends but keep them away from the counter and know when to walk away from them and talk to a customer!
I personally think internet cafes will not disapear. Fine, people are getting toll free internet access at home, ADSL is getting cheeper. But internet devices are satrting to encroch into so many things now. I think the internet cafe (and other cafes) will just evolve. There will still be hard core gaming places, because not every one has a home network (and I dont have two machines capable of running UT)
Topic has taken a left turn at Milton Kynes. (nicely avoided ;P
I like the idea of rewriting the EULA. As long as you send a copy to the publishers with something like "if you don't reply to this letter with in 14 days it will be accepted as an affirmative".
The EULA is unlike any other contract since it does not require a signiture (is that legal??) and you can not make ammendments. CDs and videos do not have a EULA, they just say you are breaking the law copying it.
I wonder how legally binding the EULA is? All these people taken to court and imprissoned is that due to normal copyright laws or because of the EULA??
Any way enough
I'm outa here
NeoReality
"its not my reality, i'm just looking after it for someone"
"This company has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down. If the problems persists, contact your vendor or appeal to a higher court."
Edited by - NeoReality on June 19, 2000 6:21:37 AM
We''ll see about the other place''s success. I mean given a choice between owning a game-oriented Internet cafe and a game development company which would you pick? 
Realisticly it''d be cool [to visit the new cafe here in town] for the first, say two months, but then I''d go do something else (like program my own games). That would be me just by myself. A group of friends meeting there regularly would last a whole lot longer.
I agree with you about the atmosphere. Somehow I forgot how card games always seem to go with computer games. I don''t care much for card games [so I guess that''s the nail in the coffin for my cafe idea]. I was thinking that my little cafe would be a place where an 8-14 year old (who knows might have gotten older people to come) could go and play consoles all day instead of going to the local WalMart or Target and doing the same thing. And then I thought there wouldn''t be much profit in retailing the games that I make available so I thought I would have a grill maybe or at least some food to keep them there. My idea stemmed from my parents not letting me have a Nintendo when I was young. So guess who went to Wal-Marts for hours on end
And then I thought about safety for them minors. What can you do? A place like a gaming cafe would act like a magnet to attract pedophiles. What could you do, who could you hire to make your establishment seem safe in the eyes of parents (who ultimately decide the fate of the business)? It seemed kind of like an impossible situation right from the start, so I opted to pursue a game devlopment career instead
joeG
Realisticly it''d be cool [to visit the new cafe here in town] for the first, say two months, but then I''d go do something else (like program my own games). That would be me just by myself. A group of friends meeting there regularly would last a whole lot longer. I agree with you about the atmosphere. Somehow I forgot how card games always seem to go with computer games. I don''t care much for card games [so I guess that''s the nail in the coffin for my cafe idea]. I was thinking that my little cafe would be a place where an 8-14 year old (who knows might have gotten older people to come) could go and play consoles all day instead of going to the local WalMart or Target and doing the same thing. And then I thought there wouldn''t be much profit in retailing the games that I make available so I thought I would have a grill maybe or at least some food to keep them there. My idea stemmed from my parents not letting me have a Nintendo when I was young. So guess who went to Wal-Marts for hours on end
And then I thought about safety for them minors. What can you do? A place like a gaming cafe would act like a magnet to attract pedophiles. What could you do, who could you hire to make your establishment seem safe in the eyes of parents (who ultimately decide the fate of the business)? It seemed kind of like an impossible situation right from the start, so I opted to pursue a game devlopment career instead
joeG
Author
joeG,
Interesting target customer 8-14. I remember going to an arcade in Northampton,England when I was young. I never told my parents where I was going and I used to throw 3-5 pound a week into the machines (which is quite a lot to a 14 year old!). The place was smoke filled, and the age range of people in there where 16-30. Not the kind of place my parents would want me to be.
Now older (23) and expecting our first kid, I''d rather let my kid play on the Playstation 3 than go to a dive like that. They probally will any way. Expansion on the above comment. Id rather give my kind their own PC than their own TV in their room.
If your thinking network gaming cafe you''ll be suprised at the age range that you will get. Catering for only 8-14 year old will seriously dent the amount of posible punters.
Out of curiousity how old are you now? An advantage of owning a cafe like that is focused free time. During the day 12-4 the place will be quite allowing you to learn/program in a techie environment.
Last thoughts. How to make parents feel their kid will be safe there.
1st allow them to play too.
Make the place bright, have no dark corners.
The only problem with that in ambiance. The cafe we where planning was very William gibson cyberpunk. Very industrial, and probally not the place to bring 8-14 year olds.
Visable cameras and security
Staff Uniforms
Even a T-shirt with a printed logo. It looks more professional and safe.
Pedophiles, like all kind of sickos do not normally stand out. Dr Shipman, Englands most prolific (and extreamly resent) serial killer looked like a very nice elderly doctor. The fact is he has proven to have killed 20 and suspected of killing upto 100 people.
Visable cameras will worry them. A members only policy would also help. No need to pay but all customers details have to be registered with proof of who they are. This meens kids need to bring their parents!
NeoReality out.
Interesting target customer 8-14. I remember going to an arcade in Northampton,England when I was young. I never told my parents where I was going and I used to throw 3-5 pound a week into the machines (which is quite a lot to a 14 year old!). The place was smoke filled, and the age range of people in there where 16-30. Not the kind of place my parents would want me to be.
Now older (23) and expecting our first kid, I''d rather let my kid play on the Playstation 3 than go to a dive like that. They probally will any way. Expansion on the above comment. Id rather give my kind their own PC than their own TV in their room.
If your thinking network gaming cafe you''ll be suprised at the age range that you will get. Catering for only 8-14 year old will seriously dent the amount of posible punters.
Out of curiousity how old are you now? An advantage of owning a cafe like that is focused free time. During the day 12-4 the place will be quite allowing you to learn/program in a techie environment.
Last thoughts. How to make parents feel their kid will be safe there.
1st allow them to play too.
Make the place bright, have no dark corners.
The only problem with that in ambiance. The cafe we where planning was very William gibson cyberpunk. Very industrial, and probally not the place to bring 8-14 year olds.
Visable cameras and security
Staff Uniforms
Even a T-shirt with a printed logo. It looks more professional and safe.
Pedophiles, like all kind of sickos do not normally stand out. Dr Shipman, Englands most prolific (and extreamly resent) serial killer looked like a very nice elderly doctor. The fact is he has proven to have killed 20 and suspected of killing upto 100 people.
Visable cameras will worry them. A members only policy would also help. No need to pay but all customers details have to be registered with proof of who they are. This meens kids need to bring their parents!
NeoReality out.
quote: Original post by TheGoop
I think you missed the point he was trying to make: that it''s absurd to have to pay for multiple copies of the same product.
Why? When I went to see Gladiator recently, there were several of us all sat there consuming the same product. 1 person, 1 payment.
As a side point: he mentioned bringing all your mates round to watch a video. You -do- actually have to get a different license to show a group of people a video that you hire. Normal video rentals is technically only for personal use, not group use. Check the small print.
I think people like to think that because they -can- easily copy something, that it should be allowed. If you want your brother to be able to read the same book you''re reading at the same time, you buy them a copy. 2 people watching the same concert buy 2 tickets. 2 people benefitting from any single product at once nearly always means that 2 people should buy the product. And I don''t see what is wrong with that: double the entertainment, double the price.
quote:
Because they''re probably only playing part of the game (the multiplayer aspect). If they were also going to play the single player as well, than perhaps they should buy another license.
The game provides options which people can play or choose not to play. That''s like saying that someone who only reads the sports section of a newspaper or who never carries passengers in their 5-seater car is entitled to a refund. If companies wish to sell cut-down versions, then fine, if not, you buy the whole thing. You pay for the availability of features. If you choose not to use them, that''s your loss.
quote: Original post by NeoReality
The EULA is unlike any other contract since it does not require a signiture (is that legal??) and you can not make ammendments. CDs and videos do not have a EULA, they just say you are breaking the law copying it.
Note: following statements based mainly on UK law.
A contract does not require a signature to be binding. CDs and videos are covered by statute copyright law as well as civil damages considerations. No separate licensing agreement is necessary.
quote: I wonder how legally binding the EULA is? All these people taken to court and imprissoned is that due to normal copyright laws or because of the EULA??
Not very binding. Most of it is legal-babble intended to intimidate people into not breaking it. They are nearly always only enforced against (a) companies with money, or (b) offenders on multi-user games who they need to kick off with good reason. These tactics work better in the USA where the winner is not guaranteed to get their legal fees paid, thus making it more likely that you''ll settle a case rather than fight it and win.
Many of the clauses in such agreements do not hold up under local laws. And in some cases, making such illegitimate claims in the agreement nullifies the entire thing (even if the contract claims that it doesn''t). Law protects the consumer from unfair contracts.
Author
Kylotan,
You seem to know your stuff. However the licence with videos forbids the Public display of the film (in part or whole) and the film is only to be used for private entertainment. This means I can''t project the film on the side of my house for all to see, but can show it to 2000 people in my own home if I can prove they are all friends and family.
You keep quoting watching a movie at the Cinema. I don''t know I ''drive ins'' charge per person or per car. If it is per car, then you are being charge for the space you take. Two people take two seats. Now you could argue if you go to the cinema and your mate sits on your lap he doesn''t have to pay. And if I owned a cinema I''d let them, put a member of staff next to them and make sure they only take the one seat (I doubt they could do it!).
But I think home digital entertainment should have the same licence as videos. Its private entertainment, I consider my Home PC''s as just another entertainment tool.
What else do you need; besides a miricle.
Money. Lots of Money. or I''ll never do a sequel!
You seem to know your stuff. However the licence with videos forbids the Public display of the film (in part or whole) and the film is only to be used for private entertainment. This means I can''t project the film on the side of my house for all to see, but can show it to 2000 people in my own home if I can prove they are all friends and family.
You keep quoting watching a movie at the Cinema. I don''t know I ''drive ins'' charge per person or per car. If it is per car, then you are being charge for the space you take. Two people take two seats. Now you could argue if you go to the cinema and your mate sits on your lap he doesn''t have to pay. And if I owned a cinema I''d let them, put a member of staff next to them and make sure they only take the one seat (I doubt they could do it!).
But I think home digital entertainment should have the same licence as videos. Its private entertainment, I consider my Home PC''s as just another entertainment tool.
What else do you need; besides a miricle.
Money. Lots of Money. or I''ll never do a sequel!
NeoReality-
I''m not really going to start one of these things up I''m young enough to still choose where I want to go in life (college) and I''ve decided that I''d rather have a game company of my own then doing something else. If I pursued something else I can envision myself looking back and kicking myself and wishing that I had actually pursued game devlopment. So there you have it.
As far as the other points you made in the last post, I agree totally. For certain there''s no surefire way to keep out bad elements. And about the target age, I''m definitely surprised. I''d figure those who have a life (24+) would bother with something else, while those with no responsibilities would hang around the cafe. Hmm, it looks like I just summed up what you said. In addition to that, owning the cafe, at least in the US where anybody can sue anyone for anything, is a a lawsuit waiting to happen.
So here''s to the success of the people already running those establishments.
joeG
I''m not really going to start one of these things up
I''m young enough to still choose where I want to go in life (college) and I''ve decided that I''d rather have a game company of my own then doing something else. If I pursued something else I can envision myself looking back and kicking myself and wishing that I had actually pursued game devlopment. So there you have it.As far as the other points you made in the last post, I agree totally. For certain there''s no surefire way to keep out bad elements. And about the target age, I''m definitely surprised. I''d figure those who have a life (24+) would bother with something else, while those with no responsibilities would hang around the cafe. Hmm, it looks like I just summed up what you said.
In addition to that, owning the cafe, at least in the US where anybody can sue anyone for anything, is a a lawsuit waiting to happen.So here''s to the success of the people already running those establishments.
joeG
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