So I broke one of my key rules last night and jotted down some notes and dialog for an RPG. A fantasy RPG, no less. I''ve come up with the ending. The big finale. And yes, it''s big - how does ''destroy magic'' sound to you? What I want to do is have the storyline build over a series of games, maybe five or seven or so. Each game would need to be complete in and of itself - like ''seasons'' of a TV show - while still giving the characters time to properly evolve and develop. Plus, if I want the finale to be effective, I need the player to get immersed in the world. It''s hard to do that with a single game. So each ''chapter'' will have it''s own storyline - but at the same time, I want hints of this big, underlying story arc to be there, so that players can finish the series, go back, and think ''Ohhh! So *that''s* what those guys in the tavern were talking about!'' kinda stuff. Does anyone have any techniques or tips for planning this kind of ''epic'' thing out? Superpig - saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
Enginuity1 | Enginuity2 | Enginuity3

Skeleton your epic, Then break it down into seperate chapters.
Once you''ve done that, you should have no trouble introducing forshadowing and hooks into your each chapter to hint at the final outcome.

Wow. I'm pretty sure that this is an idea that has yet to be used (at least in a large-scale way that has shown itself to me)... which is cool.

The games would have to be released at regular intervals, probably close together (two, three a year?) and cheap. Cheap enough that all of them together would be well under $100US. Buying six $40 game-chapters doesn't appeal to me. Buying six $15 or even $20 games wouldn't be so bad. Of course, being a fellow gamedever, I would expect them for free...

Anyways, that will/would take a lot of effort to mesh everything together just right. And for that, I think TechnoHydra gave you the solution: Careful planning.

-geo
red eye is coming back (the old site is still around, albeit in a weird transitional form)

//edit - periods and colons are NOT the same thing:::

[edited by - Avatar God on July 20, 2003 7:54:34 PM]

OK, cool...

Technogoth: Any recommendations for getting subplots in there too? I figured that I''d ''top-down'' the main storyline *anyway*, but trying to have that happen at the same time as sub-plots is like trying to do some kind of jigsaw puzzle...

Plus, I need to try and make it so that a casual player can pick up the game in the middle chapters and still understand what''s going on. I guess I could do that with some kind of ''the story so far'' thing you could choose to watch before starting the game.

Avatar god: Cool... I was hoping this would be a relatively fresh idea

If each game was a full, standalone deal - perhaps like Final Fantasy? - then would you consider paying full price for it? Sure, if you get hooked then it could be quite expensive (though I''m not thinking I''d manage 2-3 a year unless I developed a few before releasing the first - more like 10 months per game, maybe), but if you only dip into one game then you''d be getting something the same level as a full RPG for a price lower than a full RPG. Could be good business/economics, but I''m not sure...

I''m working more stuff into it. Like kittens.

The kid sister of one of the main guys in the party is at home and in one of the early games her cat gives birth to kittens. Then in one of the later games, after a massive victory, you come home and find her by the side of six tiny little graves that she''s laid flowers on. Because some things you just can''t fight.

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
Enginuity1 | Enginuity2 | Enginuity3

quote: Original post by superpig
how does 'destroy magic' sound to you?

Ehm..cliché? (Hey, you asked..)

quote: Original post by superpig
The kid sister of one of the main guys in the party is at home and in one of the early games her cat gives birth to kittens. Then in one of the later games, after a massive victory, you come home and find her by the side of six tiny little graves that she's laid flowers on. Because some things you just can't fight.

This is however so fu**in cool, I wish there was more of those "small" events in games.

/Edit
Oh yeah, forgot to say; your Enginuity articles rule!

-Luctus
Statisticly seen, most things happens to other people.
[Mail]

[edited by - Luctus on July 21, 2003 9:50:34 AM]

Take a look at the quest for glory series its a series of 5 games that allows you to bring your character from one game into the next game. They use a tie in at the intro to explain how events after the previous game lead into the current.

I don't think using a story so far approach to game transitions is a good idea it will weaken the overall quality story and be detracting for the ones who will play every game.

Instead I would use a simple transitional lead, you give a brief account of the events since the a last game and what the current situation is

example:
In the end of game 1 your kingdom of Shin was conqured by the Nation of Ra.

intro:
Since the fall imperial captial the forces of Ra have continued unhindered in their conquest and control all of what as once the kingdom of Shin. Obeying the final orders of your Emperor you have taken is only son and the last practioner of magic in your custady and the two of you have been leaving in hiding in small rual village. However now that you have recived news that the royal family has been excuted and the ever increasing number of Ra agents combing the country side. You know that the only way to protect the life of your young ward is to escape to the counrty of Rhine, far to the north and across the sky pillar mountains.


Thats how I would handle game transition, the players have a some backstory, they now the current situation and they have clear imeditate goal in mind.

as to your second question of subplots.
A sub is seperate from your main plot. it can include some of the same characters or characters acting completely independtly.
there a 3 kinds of game subplots you have to consider
1) event triggered- exsist from the games begining and is story independet
2) story trigger - appear as a result of story events.
3) interstory plots- these take place over the course of several stories(games)and are primarly based around the characters actions and relationships. They are also a good way to intise people purchase all of the games since these would only be available if the players brought his character over from one game to the next.

examples:
1)The entire population of a sevel small border villages have vansihed without a trace. Both sides suspect each other and tensions are mounting.
2)While making the ardjuice trek across the mountains you come across a group of refuges amongst them is your old friend who informs you that the Agents of Ra have siezed your parents and imprisoned them.
3)You and your old friend are staying an inn in main city having survied the perils of the mountain crossing. Unknow assailents sneak in to your room and attack you friend is killed the attacks escape. However the guests alerted by the commotion arrived to find you standing over the body of your friend bloody sword in hand, you are imeditly accused of the crime. This cause the subplot to appear in game 4 where his daughter beliving you to be her fathers killer relentless persues and attacks you in a quest for vengence.

subplots shouldn't be to challenging, make a key frame list and then insert subplot branches off if it. In otherwrods divide the story into games, each game into key scenes. Subplots will branch off of the main plot so draw a line from the scene where they begin to the scene where they end. Its really more of an orginzational technique but should allow you to visualize your entire story and its subplots.

[edited by - TechnoGoth on July 21, 2003 10:44:01 AM]

the huge underlying problem is being fair to ppl that buy into the series part way through. If you want to span it over mutliple games, then the storyline would be huge, and thus u lose an audience that comes in half way through. say they buy number 3 in the series and they think it sucks because they have no idea what the hell is going on. seems nice in theory but bad in practice.

quote: Original post by TechnoGoth
I don''t think using a story so far approach to game transitions is a good idea it will weaken the overall quality story and be detracting for the ones who will play every game.

Instead I would use a simple transitional lead, you give a brief account of the events since the a last game and what the current situation is

example:
In the end of game 1 your kingdom of Shin was conqured by the Nation of Ra.

intro:
Since the fall imperial captial the forces of Ra have continued unhindered in their conquest and control all of what as once the kingdom of Shin. Obeying the final orders of your Emperor you have taken is only son and the last practioner of magic in your custady and the two of you have been leaving in hiding in small rual village. However now that you have recived news that the royal family has been excuted and the ever increasing number of Ra agents combing the country side. You know that the only way to protect the life of your young ward is to escape to the counrty of Rhine, far to the north and across the sky pillar mountains.

Hmm, ok - so a kind of ''implicit'' story so far? I wasn''t really thinking of a little button you press to watch a set of clips from the previous game, or anything like that; maybe just a cutscene at the beginning with the main character talking about how things stand (e.g. end of previous game, Nareth goes off to train at a monastery; next game ''Nareth''s training is going really well; soon the monks say he''ll be ready to leave as a trained warrior.''). I''m not sure if such a cutscene should be played to all players, or only those not doing a carry-over?

quote:
Thats how I would handle game transition, the players have a some backstory, they now the current situation and they have clear imeditate goal in mind.

OK. The main problem is character development, I feel - by skimming over the events of the previous games to only give the essentials, you lose out on many of the things that give the characters depth. But I guess that''s unavoidable; it could even be considered an incentive to get the whole series.

quote:
as to your second question of subplots.
A sub is seperate from your main plot. it can include some of the same characters or characters acting completely independtly.
there a 3 kinds of game subplots you have to consider
1) event triggered- exsist from the games begining and is story independet
2) story trigger - appear as a result of story events.
3) interstory plots- these take place over the course of several stories(games)and are primarly based around the characters actions and relationships. They are also a good way to intise people purchase all of the games since these would only be available if the players brought his character over from one game to the next.

Ah - those sound more like sub-quests (which isn''t what I meant). Sub-plots - other ''little stories'' that run alongside the story, that you can ignore or watch at your pleasure, like the kitten story (because you''ll turn up soon after the girl''s cat has given birth, again a few times while she''s looking after them, and then finally while she''s by their grave). It''s one of the main things I learnt about playwriting - only giving the audience the ''main story'' results in flat characters and a flat play. Take Twelfth Night - it could be said that the Toby Belch / Malvoleo storyline is of little importance, but without it the play would be lessened.

They''re not even stories that the main characters are involved in, usually. Like, you go down the tavern and can listen to this guy boast about the great deal he''s sure to get on a cart; you can then come back later and hear him saying that he got a great deal, but the other people laughing at him when they find out he was absolutely taken; and then you come back even later and find out that he then sold it on to someone else at an even greater price than he paid for it. You don''t get involved at all - you don''t even have to listen - but if you do, you possibly get added enjoyment.

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
Enginuity1 | Enginuity2 | Enginuity3

Here''s the little bit of the kitten graveside scene I''ve written (sorry I keep using the same example, but the images are stuck in my head now ):

(The kid sister''s name is Lily, and Nareth - a friend of the brother, and ''hard warrior'' - has arrived at the house with the rest of the party, and been asked to look for her. Oh, and a kitten-hatch is a cat-flap, invented and thus named by Lily).



Nareth finds Lily in the garden. She''s crouched in front of a row of graves; six little paper headstones, with simple names in ink. She holds the remaining kitten, Thomas.

"It was too cold last night," she says, quietly.

She puts the kitten down, and stands up to face Nareth. "I don’t know what happened. Maybe the kitten-hatch froze shut. Maybe they were lost. Maybe they just... they just..."

She breaks down, and begins sobbing uncontrollably. Not knowing what do to, he takes her in his arms. "Shh..." he tries, feeling a fool.

"I don''t understand, it''s so... wrong, " she gasps out, between sobs, "they were so... beautiful."

And suddenly he understands, he no longer feels a fool. "I know," he says, as he holds the trembling little girl to his chest. "I know."




Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
Enginuity1 | Enginuity2 | Enginuity3

you seem to enjoy dead kittens either that or crying woman, then again if your writer like I am it probably more of case of that liittle scene while not important is one that your really proud of.

If your stoy is written well character development shouldn''t not be a problem, since the character development will take place in game. The player should be able to watch the character develop without knowledge of previous games. Where the previous games come into effect is in the overall development and subtitle character reactions. These will be develop as the story as a whole. for instance if in a later game Nareth rushes into a burning build save a trapped cat and then nurses it back to health, the first time player will see this as an act of bravery, but someone who''s played through the whole story should be see this as refrence to Nareth early experince with his sisters dying cats.

I understand how you can my subplot refrences sound more like subquests, of course subplots and quest can be one and the same.

I guess I should have said there two types of subplots Atmosphere stories - These flesh out the settings and provide scenery making it feel like your playing in more fleshed out world.
Parrel stories - these are used to flesh out the main character and his role in the world. They are more common in games, since they involve the main character and are not part of the main story.

I''d also like to further say that, subplot is not the same a scenery.
"Like, you go down the tavern and can listen to this guy boast about the great deal he''s sure to get on a cart; you can then come back later and hear him saying that he got a great deal, but the other people laughing at him when they find out he was absolutely taken; and then you come back even later and find out that he then sold it on to someone else at an even greater price than he paid for it."

thats really scenery, it doesn''t add anything to story other then giving the impression that the "extras" have lives.

while a subplot should have all the usual story qualites they can invole the main character and the often do the key thing is that a subplot is seperate from the main plot.
Here''s anthor example of sub plot this one doesn''t have anything do to with the main character or the story
"A severe draught has destroyed most of the counries grain crops. Every where you go you can here people muttering about the problem. Later in the story people are more panicked after reports of bandits destroy and stealing grain shipments have become know, The price of the remaing grain begins to skyrocket. Later still with graineries nearly barren starvation rampant in the land. Traveling merchants appear offering to sell the grain in exchange for any old lamps people might have. In then end people discover that rich merchant was behind the draught, bandits and merchants in mad scheme to claim ownership of all the lamps in the land in hopes of finding one with a genie in it."

I subplot should have some form of conflict and change in it other wise its just background scenery. "Bob going to the store to buy milk", isn''t a sub plot. However "bob going to the store to buy milk, and finding none end up buying a cow and within six months own a nation wide change of dairy farms, is an amusing side story.