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To limit or to infinity..

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25 comments, last by Niphty 24 years ago
Levels are not evil. You just choose to see it that way. I know more people that see it the other way, so i''d be careful what you blindly accuse. Levels merely give a way of classifying your status. Even karate has levels, as i mentioned elsewhere on GD.net You''ve got a major level (belt color) and minor level (number of stripes). This is how you tell who''s more advanced than who in an HONORABLE system. I admit, people in reality usually don''t have honor and respect as it is taught in karate. But i believe levels can still be useful. How do you enforce roleplaying? you simply make it illegal to be out of character. My game features a reporting command to allow you to report people who''re talking out of character. This policy is STRICTLY enforced. Any GM on my staff who catches someone doing this can immediately send this person to what we call "OOC Jail". From there they get a warning the first time.. after that they either take a reduction in skill levels or they can attend RP Classes which we will sponser. This will be a session for anyone interested and anyone who has been sent to OOC Jail and choose this option. In it we will discuss how to RP and how not to. Anyone caught doing this a third time will get an even stiffer punishment You lose one strike against you every 3 or 6 months, because we all know accidents can happen.

AD&D was originally based on storytelling. profeciencies are an OPTIONAL rule. Player''s OPTION: skills and powers is an OPTION. Anyone choosing to play that way accepts the risks. Try playing D&D without profeciencies and such.. only stats. The DM is forced to come up with their own guidelines as to how things should work. D&D is merely meant to provide the DM with a set of base rules to build something around. They never say "do this for certain" and in fact say "bend the rules if nessicary". AD&D is NOT designed to be played by the books all the time. A DM''s best judgement is the ruling factor. However, D&D provides rules for things the DM might not want to think about or might not know about

The_Minister, scarey name First off.. i think you''re too realistic. Why? well it''s true.. in reality things like that happen. But how can we tell morals in a game? We can''t simply make a table of morals, can we? The paladin who slays something does on only because he must. Senseless killing is not in his nature, and this the character should resist attempts by the player to do certain actions! This character IS it''s own being, and the player is merely the consciousness of it. But it goes hand in hand with stats and skills to have the character resist the player''s commands if they go against the character''s alignment/profession or whatever. A paladin by nature would NEVER harm something that he feels is weaker than he is. He would merely turn it loose and let it go. This is why AD&D was VERY strict on this. If you acted out of alignment with a paladin, you could LOSE your title and become a mere FIGHTER! and you lose all the perks of being a paladin. This is the kind of playing that should exist. I don''t believe fighters should only have swords.. i think they should be able to pick a secondary guild they''d like to dabble in. perhaps they like to play with magic? cool for them. They''ll never gain magical abilities like a mage would.. but they can certainly learn some stuff. I totally agree with this, but they''re still a fighter! It''s just the rules of life.. hehe.

I agree that people should respond to people who''ve done senseless killings. We''ve already discussed and turned away from the "murder-based" exp as landfish calls it. So how about we move on to something else instead of still trying to act like it''s an issue? Yes, i think some murder-based exp should exist. Why? because it''s a serious way to learn something. I don''t think we should say the character has no morals for killing something. I mean, if it were life and death, you''d kill something, too! I wouldn''t shun you for defending yourself. I admit, if they go nuts with it, they''d likely go mad from it, but we can''t program this yet. We don''t know how the human mind responds to these things, we could only guess. There are some people who''re emotionally cold and thus see killing as an act of mercy sometimes. They''re not evil because they kill, they just have "misguided morals" according to mainstream society. This is in no way wrong.. but the person is likely to be shunned and be a loner. But someone who kills dragons.. whoa.. there''s a different story. you could wipe out all sorts of dragons and NO ONE would really mind, except people who''re overly senseative to life. You''ve got to imagine that if you grew up with the threat of attack by goblins, or if you had your family killed by them at a young age, you''d likely be on a quest to wipe them all out. Why? because you''ve had a problem with them in the past and you''re tramatized. It happens in real life, too. How do you plan on coding things like this, where a player can justify their senseless killing of an enemy because of some past trama? I had something like this with some of my characters in which i particularly hated something. Rangers in AD&D must pick a species enemy at 2nd level. This is something they get a bonus to attacking because of some rage associated with something these creatures did to him/his friends in the past. it''s perfectly acceptable and happens in real life. So what about these things?

J
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Niphty : D&D is a battle system, not a set of RPG rules dixit Gary Gygax himself !

D&D rules are based on previous chainmail ones, which were fantasy battle system rule set.
And TSR means Tactical System Rules (or Research)...

As you can see D&D rules were NOT designed to make someone play a role but rather to make someone play a kind of killing machine.
Class and levels were simple tricks to know a creature power and to balance the game, nothing more.

True RPG rules are only recent in the history of pen&paper RPG.

Those rules emphasis the play of a ROLE.
They gives you reward whenever you''re playing your role adequatly, no more xp earned when killing someone.
No more trick to balance and see the power of a creature, much more real life rules.
Why ?
Just because heroes are based on real life, and so must be a rule system.


AD&D books mention the fact that the MD is the ultimate chooser, and can brake the rules. But only in the new releases.
(2nd and upcoming 3rd edition)

The ranger fact you mention is one of the very few things that tend to make a player follow his role.

I agree about the Evil thing.
Morality is a matter of education, no more.

(I love my no life caring character. A character that have no respect to life of being calling themselves superior, and making other sufering without taking care, or worst, closing their eyes on crimes toward nature. [Ranger like;o)] )


I think we agree on the fact that only recent pen&paper games have rules allowing freedom and enhancing the role playing.
(I choose disadvantages simply to enhance my character role)

-* So many things to do, so few time to spend *-
-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-
quote: Original post by Ingenu

True RPG rules are only recent in the history of pen&paper RPG.



That''s a contradiction in terms, for true roleplaying, you need no rules! If you''ve ever played Vampire LARP, you know that the ONLY rules they have are scissors/paper/stone.

Recent RolePlaying games DO emphasize the story part of the game more than the statistical part. This is because play had evolved from roleplaying to "find the stat to whack the rat". I know people that can roleplay very well within the ADnD system, and I know people that can''t roleplay to save their lives in the Vampire-The Masquerade system, but the Vampire system at least encourages roleplay.

I believe that in CRPGs - we need to push the players more towards roleplaying, more in the style of Vampire. Benefits and problems that only crop up if you play inside and outside of the role you picked. But perhaps that''s not such a good idea, because you''ll be limiting player freedom once again. It''s a very hard tradeoff to make.


Back on-topic - I believe in unlimited, but declining, advancement. By that, I mean that you can advance to an unlimited height in "absolute" value, but that your actual stat, as a percentage, climbs toward a limit, ever slower. For instance, at a strength value of 200, you''d have 45% strength, where the percentile maximum is 50 ( you add a skill to your roll as well, which makes for the other 50% )





Give me one more medicated peaceful moment..
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important functions will be disabled from now on.
It's only funny 'till someone gets hurt.And then it's just hilarious.Unless it's you.
MadKeithV is jiggy with it.

Anyway, before Vampire ever existed, there was the Amber diceless roleplaying game. That was the first game that promoted role-playing - even in battles.

Anyway, whether a game is role or roll playing, it is irrelevent. If the game isn''t fun, not many are going to play it.

First rule of game design: Make it fun.

Don''t take my word, read that game dev book that ghowland did a rave review about in GameDev''s own little book review section.
JeranonGame maker wannabe.
This is a time when I wish I could Rapidly Prototype my ideas and show you all what I mean, so you could tell me if you thought it was fun or not

But yes, FUN is the biggest part of a game.
The thing is, we''re discussing what "fun" is for those people who love playing Role-Playing games...


Give me one more medicated peaceful moment..
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.
It's only funny 'till someone gets hurt.And then it's just hilarious.Unless it's you.
I was thinking of adding "Level 3 Game Designer" to my resume actually. I wonder how a potential game company employer would look at that. LOL :-)

Game balancing skills = 86%
Creative thinking = 34%
Game design problem solving = 45%

It was a good joke while it lasted.

Level 1 comedian!!



WE are their,
"Sons of the Free"
Character Kit specific weakness: No sense of humour


Just kidding, don''t take it the wrong way


Give me one more medicated peaceful moment..
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.
It's only funny 'till someone gets hurt.And then it's just hilarious.Unless it's you.
quote: Original post by MadKeithV

Character Kit specific weakness: No sense of humour


Just kidding, don''t take it the wrong way


Give me one more medicated peaceful moment..
~ (V)^/) /<é!t/-/ ~
ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.


Tip MadKeithV: Don''t upgrade your version of life 1.0. It''s not worth it :-). Plus i heard there''s a hack anyhow.
- I''m not depressed, it''s just a joke -


WE are their,
"Sons of the Free"
LOL..

I think it''s more like "World Flaw: no intelligent life on this planet" hehe

J
Huh? I don''t get it?
Where''s the elephant?
( am I offtopic or what )


Give me one more medicated peaceful moment..
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.
It's only funny 'till someone gets hurt.And then it's just hilarious.Unless it's you.

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