When trying to bringing across a particular social or political point in a game is there any point in making subtle? It just seems admits beating grogs with your +3 enchanted grog smacker, most people will miss the point of story or the meaning it tries to portray. So is there any point in being subtle? Or if you want to make a point do you have to exaggerate it and shove it down the player’s throat? For instance if I wanted to get across the point that war is wrong and consequences and pain it inflicts on people. I could have the player journeying though burnt villages and encounter bloody and bleeding soldiers on booth sides wherever they go. I could show the misery in the people as whole families are uprooted and marching in an endless pilgrimage to find somewhere away from the battle field. But the player might not appreciate the point I’m trying to make. Instead I think I would have to be blunt about it, have the players mother, father, little sister and even the family dog slaughtered by enemy soldiers and have people say that no good is coming from this war. As well as other blatant message that including some 10 minute speech about evils of war and how it accomplishes nothing. As well as including some over the top evil villain who is some kind of demon feeding on hate and is instigating the war. ----------------------------------------------------- Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades Current Design project Chaos Factor Design Document

If you treat your players like idiots, only idiots will play your game. Know your market etc. etc.

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I guess I''d have to answer with a question: who are you making the point for? Are you trying to make a statement because you want the player to actually feel remorse, or sorrow, or are you making the statement because your conscience says you should?

The answer to that question will probably dictate whether you go with subtle effects or the proverbial club to the head.

Like people above said, keep in mind your audience. I think in other forms of art, bloody scenes, like you describe, might not be considered "subtle" hints that war is wrong. However, gaming is slightly different in that there have been so many games that are quite distant from reality (first due to technological limitations, later due to some other), that I think in the minds of many gamers, even when they see something they would consider bad/wrong/scary in real life, in the game they just treat it as another means for victory.

I noticed that it may be hard to introduce a moral point to the things the player sees, or especially does.

But back to the choice of an audience. I also think that it also matters a lot what kind of game it is (which probably ultimately determines your audience any way). I mean, if you tried to make the point that war is bad, you probably wouldn''t choose a first-person shooter game to make that point in, but if you did, that''s when you''d have to be blunt about it. However, if you choose a different genre, like say a non-action adventure, then you can afford to be much more subtle for a few reasons: for one thing, different kind of people play this game, and secondly, this type of game does not strain reflexes, but rather other parts of the brain, and so the player has enough time to ponder the messages you are sending and will better see the subtlety you are trying to convey.

You can try to make a point, and people could just as easily try to use it in a way you didn't intend. Some would walk through the villages with the mutilated bodies and think, "Wow, those are awesome graphics." or "Ooh have you seen the gore in that game, it's AWESOME!"

If you want to make a point, you might be better off introducing it as a viewpoint of a charracter expressing their views in the game, possibly someone else opposing their view, and kind of make the player a bystander (possibly a light contributor) to how things play out. That way, it's still mostly just a game, the player is exposed to some opposing viewpoints, and can make their own decision without one side seeming more right than the other.

There are two sides to almost everything.

So in a game trying to say that war is wrong, you have a commander that wants war, another that wants peace, an opportunity for peace comes, the commanders are at odds with each other, etc. etc. you can imagine the rest. After the game is over, the player can decide for themselves what kind of real world they want to help build.


[edited by - Waverider on December 10, 2003 3:15:09 PM]

They''ll miss the point if your message is in scenery or props that are not part of the gameplay.

Have the game objective be to prevent war outbreak somehow, or something like that. The challenging part is how would you make it interesting. Or maybe have the player be a paramedic who must rescue victims.

If all you do is show the terrible carnage then you have little more than a documentary in game form.

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People say know your audience but thats just a buzz phrase. A game in general has to be designed with your audience in mind but if you want it to appeal to alarge audiance you have to create it as such.

I personally feel that an author should always have a message in mind when they write a story. In other media this can be done subtly and you can write the story as such.

The whole idea of including a message in a story is to make the player think about something in a new or certain way. In my example to get them to realize the consquence or war and how its not about glory.

If its done subtly that means that the message is contained in the background setting and events. I could get across the message that war is wrong while not have story direcly related to stopping the war instead the story would merely occur during the war.

If I have to be blunt that generally means having the player directly interacting with the message I'm trying to get across. In this case it would mean having them trying to stop the war or bring peace to both sides.

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Writer, Programer, Cook, I'm a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document



[edited by - TechnoGoth on December 10, 2003 4:15:38 PM]

I think those specifically saying you need to "know your audience" mean in the vein of asking what kind of game you''re designing, and by association what kind of mentality will you expect the person playing that game to have?

I wouldn''t expect any kind of war message in Quake Arena, or Tribes, or just about any FPS format. Even a game similar to Tenchi sort of removes the high-handed moral message, since the person playing that game isn''t interested in question the ethics of theft and assination.

Could you imagine a moral message in Grand Theft Auto? Would there even be a point, or serve a purpose?

Now on the other hand if your game is a lot more cerebral, forcing the player to consider choices before taking certain actions then by all means yes, include moral and ethical messages, subtle and heavy handed both. Your audience is more inclined to "appreciate" such designs than the shoot-em-all-and-let-god-sort-them-out players.

I''d say it isn''t simply knowing your audience, it''s asking what kind of game you want to make, and what kind of people you can reasonably expect to make up your player base. Then you can decide whether a message is even warranted, let alone whether it should be subtle or obvious.

My two bytes, anyway.

I agree that in some ways the kind of game will dictate what kind of message you can bring across but that doesn''t mean the game can''t have a message. Afterall why can''t an FPS have a message? For instance take Halo, it could be possible to include an anti-war message into the game. Maybe you could have it so that no matter how hard the master cheif fights against the covent and how many he kills even going to extant of killing their leaders he can''t prevent the destruction of the earth by the covent super weapon. In the end the master chief is a drift alone in an empty universe, the result of his endless battles and "winning" the war.


I disagree that game has to be cerbal to include a message in fact any game with a story consisting of more then a few lines of text connecting levels can have a message. Also the message does have to have any other purpose in the game then getting the player to think about something. The player doesn''t have to appreciate the message or even care about for it be there.

Did anyone here player Metal Gear solid? There was a speech at the end of the game, that was the designers way of getting across their message and again in the Metal Gear solid 2 there was a 30 minute speech at the end of the game.


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Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document