quote: Whoa, whoa, whoa. 5-10 small towns/forts? How small? Are we talking ghettos of the evil super-city? Tribal villages? Medieval cities? What's the world population, not including zombies? You but a thousand people in each city, you've got a low population density.

My original idea was from what you normally see in zombie movies. The situation starts off with a group of people building and defending against the hordes of dead. If one out of every ten groups survived, where would that put them 500-1000 years later? That's what I want. So every one of these areas will have to be walled/cliffed-off and self sustained. They'll have to be big enough to grow their own food, and be near some source of water. It's possible that some could have huge advantages, such as minerals to mine to make weapons or bullets. Some could have knowledge of modern medicine and such.

quote: I suppose it could work, though. But how do you explain the magilopolis? Do people know where it is? Is it a center of myth? Are there bone-and-meat humans working for the bad guy?

The bad guy isn't really so much of an evil guy. Just very power-hungry and self centered. OK, evil. The city will have been built around him, by normal people, as him as their leader. Sort of a futuristic empire, and nothing like a democracy. It will have huge metal walls all around it, with automated turrets that fire on moving targets, which are actually designed to kill zombies. Since he's not totally evil, or at least not to the point that he makes people suffer for sport, the city will be pretty commercialized. Civilians and such will be pretty wuss, running from any kind of fight. But there will be gangs, corporations, and clans, though most will be currupted.

quote: Does he try to exterminate/capture the survivors? How big is this game world?

The bad guy (or lady) probably won't be concerned about the rest of the world, as .. well..., it is pretty screwed. That, and it's doubtful that these groups would ever pose any threat once they're in his way. But then, I'm not yet sure of any future plans he has once the game starts. He'll probably have to be up to something big. There are definitely still holes in my story.. The game world will be pretty big. A lot of it will consist of modern ruins. But not like those in Fallout or other world-destroyed games, as nothing "smashing" destroyed the planet. Weather and fire will have taken out most that would burn or rot. Large buildings, some still standing, will be wrapped in plant life. There will be some normal animals, the ones who could fight off zombies or run away from them well enough. There will also be a lot of infected animals. All of this is planned. I have no idea how much of it will work.

quote: A quick note, I think you should try to make the zombie plague less virulent. You'd need some hardcore defenses to keep the hordes from touching you, especially if you're killing them with a bronze axe.

The virus runs it's course pretty quick, too. Around 5-10 minutes, then the person loses control and attacks anything that moves. But you'll have to be really torn up by a zombie to get infected. And I'm planning to have treatments or cures that exist, but they would only work in those 10 minutes. I believe the virus has to be extreme, or humans would have been able to get around it more easily. Also, zombies will be easily outsmarted. They will be aggressive and fast compared to zombie movies (since magic is at work, and not just rotting flesh), but extremely dumb and clumbsy.

quote: It's not a bad idea, all things considered, but you should probably put some more thought into it, and rennovate and refine the whole deal. There's lots of potential, but it's still too nebulous for really helpful comments.

You're totally right. But this is most thought I've been able to put into it since I started planning it. It's extremely helpful to have someone ask how or why, and to point out stupid ideas. I'm a programmer, and not a writer, so feel free to insult any lame detail you can find.

Thanks much for your time, and let me know if I left something unanswered. I think I typed enough to put everyone to sleep.


EDIT - Sorry techno.. missed yours

quote: I can understand why the population would be so small, since food would be very scarce after all who wants to risk their life farming when zombies are running around

Well, since it has been so long, the people still alive would probably need some constant source of food and water. I'm guessing there could be contraptions made to clean rain water to drink.

quote: Also you should make the zombie disease less virulent since, if all it takes is some body fluid then anyone in fight with a zombie will end up infected espically if they are armed only with axes

Not unless the zombies bite the person, throw up on them, or something similar. These zombies will smack with their arms more than bite. I know that realistically, chopping up zombies with an axe would be a bad habbit to get into, since the blood would get into your wounds. But I have to draw the line somewhere between game world and real world.

quote: I also like the idea that laws of nature have changed that Iron Chef Carnage suggested. It would be funny to see a scene where the character finds an old physic or chemistry text book and trys out some of the practical theories only to discover the result competely diffrent then the expected

It's a great idea. I'm still trying to think of the possibilities with that.

[edited by - Jiia on February 16, 2004 7:41:37 PM]

Maybe an anti-zombification vaccine/enchantment?

The zombie thing is starting to bother me now. 500-1000 years later, with a small scattered population and a large fortified population, where are these zombies coming from? If the zombies were long-lived, or even immortal, it would take care of it, but you''ve got to do something to reconcile the 5 billion dead, the 1000 year gulf in time, and the current state of affairs. Maybe monsters would be better than zombies for this, but I hate to give up the zombies, because they are awesome. I''m not sure what to do, and I don''t want to go writing huge chunks of the game for you, because you probably wouldn''t use them and it would probably be rude, anyway. Good luck with that.

I''m assuming that the scientist has magicked himself up immortality of some sort. That''s good. With a thousand years, you could pretty much make whatever world you want to. On an economic note, even if the magilopolis is totally zombie-proof, it''ll need some source of food, etc. I guess you could magick up edibles and drinking water, but that''s the sort of thing that''ll bite you in the butt if you kill the villain. After all, he''s singlehandedly feeding and protecting 80% of the world''s population from his own past crimes. Maybe he''s reformed, and trying to find a way to be a better god.

With the big city full of evil loyalists, the dangerous countryside, and the outmatched resistance, this idea begins to have a lot in common with another thread from some time ago. Reichpunk, I believe it was called. Do a search for that, and see if any of the ideas can be applied here.

quote: The zombie thing is starting to bother me now. 500-1000 years later, with a small scattered population and a large fortified population, where are these zombies coming from? If the zombies were long-lived, or even immortal, it would take care of it, but you''ve got to do something to reconcile the 5 billion dead, the 1000 year gulf in time, and the current state of affairs.

I was planning to have them live until they decay beyound movement. We all know zombies can''t really happen; the body would have to function to move around, and therefore wouldn''t be dead. Magic has to play a role to be somewhat realistic. I''m wanting to say they could keep moving around for around 200 years. 1000 years would kill off 5 generations. I don''t plan to have masses of them everywhere. Most will gather around the living places, and the others will be spaced out pretty well.

quote: Maybe monsters would be better than zombies for this, but I hate to give up the zombies, because they are awesome. I''m not sure what to do, and I don''t want to go writing huge chunks of the game for you, because you probably wouldn''t use them and it would probably be rude, anyway. Good luck with that.

I''m a huge zombie fan, and monsters would probably have the same limitations (except maybe they can reproduce). Ubalanced magic spawning into the world could easily create monsters. Hell, even nature without humans playing in it over 1000 years could create monsters of some kind. The only problem would be that a monster capable of taking out most of the world would probably have been able to finish us off. Zombies on the other hand, are us, and the virus could have easily spread fast enough to catch everyone off gaurd. Part of the main plot would of course be to remove the plague. Or to stop it from spreading (an immunity or such). That''s far from being worked out..

quote: I''m assuming that the scientist has magicked himself up immortality of some sort. That''s good.

Somewhat. He''s not invincible. I don''t want a "remove his powers and you can defeat him" type fight. Perhaps a "build yourself up to that kind of power" type fight. I don''t want him to be able to do everything. No God skills like "creating" life or objects. No fireball or lightning spells. He can, however, do things such as heal himself almost instantly, gain incredible temporary strength and agility, drain someone clean of life, or make grass grow really fast.

In other words, he can modify nature''s energy. The idea is to use a "hidden" energy that exists in the earth. The energy that decays from a body and feeds plant life, which gets eaten by an animal, which gets eaten by another, etc. Once he discovered this, he found a connection with that energy and himself, and was able to change things around. I''m not sure if I really need to explain all this anywhere in the game though. Who would really know besides himself anyways? And if I do, I''ll have to add more details to keep it realistic.

There is also another problem I have to face. Since he can do these things (and since he caused the plague), he could easily just suck the life right out of the player, or turn him into a zombie. Game over. I have to bring the player up to his level in some way or another, without making the player "the chosen one", and trying my best not to force the player to hide from him through the rest of the game (allowing the player to undo some of his destruction, without him noticing). Perhaps he''s just so arragont and self rightous, he doesn''t fear mortals enough to give a crap.

quote: With a thousand years, you could pretty much make whatever world you want to. On an economic note, even if the magilopolis is totally zombie-proof, it''ll need some source of food, etc. I guess you could magick up edibles and drinking water, but that''s the sort of thing that''ll bite you in the butt if you kill the villain.

He won''t even be concerned with the city. He should have another goal in mind, I just haven''t came up with it yet. His highest followers will rule the city, and be as equally evil. The city will have their own food source, as he wouldn''t help it grow it to save their lives. They are advanced, though. So technology is on their side. Maybe they just take pills or inject some nutrients. ..More details

quote: With the big city full of evil loyalists, the dangerous countryside, and the outmatched resistance, this idea begins to have a lot in common with another thread from some time ago. Reichpunk, I believe it was called. Do a search for that, and see if any of the ideas can be applied here.

My world is conjured up from a few lines out of Fight Club, minus the zombies and scarce humans.

I''m not so much concerned about the magic part anymore. The magic in items will never get crazy. Just enhance abilites or attributes. Any that do extraordinary things will be extremely rare.

As always, anyone feel free to throw an axe in something if it stinks.

I''m going to have to include this thread in "the making of" if this project ever sees enough light.

Thanks again.

Your idea about using the power through meditation and focusing makes me think that after a thousand years of being attuned to this energy source, that scientist would basically be an evil Buddha. I think that he could just be removed from the system, since enlightenment tends to lead to a policy of non-intervention. He wouldn''t be inclined to conquer or save the world, just to float around ethereally and be happy. You could wind up fighting his evil acolytes, who have some super-powers, but not enough to get wise like him, and so you could eventually get jacked enough to take them on.

Or, to combine the zombie cure and the fighting evil objectives, maybe you could design the magic system to have aspects. It''s kind of like shamanism already, so you might be able to have things like zombification be ruled by the "pestilence" aspect of the magic, and the player could somehow proof himself against it, so that he coulsn''t be zombified. You could systematically become immune to most or all of the evil magicks, and then the final battle would just be a fist-fight between you (the invincible hero) and him (the pencil-necked geek). Wedgie your way to salvation.

TechnoGoth -> The player won't know the scientist. The only "catching up" I plan to do for the game story would be a quick intro about how the world suffered from him. Then a "so-so many years later" deal. I was throwing around ideas about starting the game as a small child. The player would then go through little scenarios to learn about his family and life, then have some major need to leave his people. He'll know nothing about how the world ended, other than stories. To him, it's always been this way. So at the beginning, there will not be something driving the player character toward the scientist. He will have another purpose. Likewise, the scientist knows nothing about a boy who has enough to potential to bring him down. Being so arrogant, he wouldn't bother himself.

quote: Iron Chef Carnage said: Or, to combine the zombie cure and the fighting evil objectives, maybe you could design the magic system to have aspects. It's kind of like shamanism already, so you might be able to have things like zombification be ruled by the "pestilence" aspect of the magic, and the player could somehow proof himself against it, so that he coulsn't be zombified. You could systematically become immune to most or all of the evil magicks, and then the final battle would just be a fist-fight between you (the invincible hero) and him (the pencil-necked geek). Wedgie your way to salvation.

Well, even if the player did become immune to magical influence, the scientist can still channel it into himself. And just about everything around him, such as his evil lackies. He may be able to do things such as make vines/trees/plants grow and thrust through people (have to think about that one). I don't want the scientist to be concerned with ruling the world. Similar if I had flipped, and taken out most of it, I wouldn't want it either. What good are wealth and fame if no one is around to appreciate you.

I would prefer that he have some goal, though. Something that would give the player a reason to want to take him out. If he just floats and meditates, then the player would feel somewhat evil himself for killing the guy.

I do like the immunity ideas though. I think I would prefer that to the player learning magic him/her self.

Thanks again for the ideas and questions

EDIT - I really appreciate both (Techno & Chef) of your ideas. Even if the story changes (or this thread keeps moving to the point where I can't find it anymore), I will include your names somewhere. I know that's not saying much from a would-be-game perspective, so I do appreciate your help.

I do have a fantastic editor, 1/4 of the city built in the game world,and a character can move around and attack things (even though there are no other characters to attack). I still have a long ways to go.

[edited by - Jiia on February 17, 2004 2:50:52 PM]

quote: Original post by TechnoGoth
I''m still wondering what the scientist motivation is. What is he trying to accomplish now? He has godlike powers, a city of followers, no one oppose him so now what?

Also at some point in the game the player learn of scientist and his current "fiendish plan?" but what is driving the player to intervine? Its not like the player would really care that 1000 years ago the scientist killed billions of people so what is driving the player to kill the scientist?

Both of your questions should be answered with the same fact. But I still don''t know what it is. His new goal is what should drive the player towards taking him out. But this is an important element in the story, and needs to be worth the effort of the whole game. I''ll have to figure this out.

quote: Original post by ffx
I shouldn''t say this as my game is sf-fantasy game, but using DISCOVERY to find about magic is IMHO lame. Try different approach. Magic must be defined in terms of physics, must follow cause and effect. It must not be almighty. But then again it mustn''t be evolved(atleast naturally) because that would mean that our appereance should evolve too. Just a hint

If you define the ins and outs of magic, explain exactly what forces deem it possible, and show why it''s physically possible, then it''s not magic at all. Magic has no relation to physics. The whole point is that it defies physics. That''s what makes it "MAGIC". No RPG that I''ve played expained cause and effect. You just cast a damn spell and it hurts someone.

I also don''t understand where you''re coming from. How is this type of magic almighty, compared to lightning bolts, fireballs, and lazer beams? The scientist can control a single element. I had thought that I toned magic down to a minimum level compared to other games. His power over that element would have to be extreme, to set the current state of the world.

I''m not sure of the details about finding the magic. My story is still incomplete. Magic in most games is not limited to one character, as in mine. It''s not part of evolution. He finds a way, he doesn''t evolve into a way. The magic will not play a role in the actual game, other than effects it has caused, until the player''s party faces him or his lackies.

The game will center around character building. Focused on party members, and building them too. I''m hoping I can make this part of the game fun enough that the story will take a backseat anyways. I''m far, far, far from a writer. That''s why I need so much help.