quote:
Original post by NecroMage
I can see a couple major flaws with this entire concept. First of all, what is the motive for the human vs. dragon war? Why are they fighting in the first place? Without a proper cause, war would not break out. However, even with a proper cause, surely a high technological society would not resort to exo-suits as a main form of assault. They would use bombs and missiles and heavy artillery, including bio weapons, and unless the dragons have some sort of protection against such things, they would surely lose. On the other hand, if the dragons could develop their own technology, then you have a different story.
The other issue is the "seeing the future" aspect of those oracle dragons you mentioned. The ability to see the future REQUIRES either a fixed fate system (in which no matter what, something is going to happen) or some kind of weird explanation, which I hope you will provide. A more minor flaw is when that expedition group entered the gateway and wanted to bring back a live dragon as proof: didn't they have video-recorders that would prove the hostility of the region. They wouldn't risk losing people for some stupid reason like that.
To summarize, I would like you to please explain (or perhaps change) the following items:
- Whether the dragons can use and develop technology
- Why the war is waging
- Why the dragons can transform into human-form (what for?)
- Why heavy weapons are not used in the war
- How the oracles work
- Whatever else I have mentioned above 
- Whether the dragons can use and develop technology The dragons have magic so magical technology is what they use, you know in ff9 they have technology which uses mist as an energy source and to make the black mages, in the dragon world they use magic Crystals to fly air ships and for staff weapons ala star gate sg1's staff weapons. Further technology i haven't come up with yet but I'm thinking more about the human world at the moment so ill get to that later.
- Why the war is waging The dragons and humans can not talk to each other, using the small story exact i wrote above, the exos stole the next oracle dragon. That dragon is the new oracle becuase the old one is dead/dieing so without it the above mentioned collapse of the dragons society would occur. Without being able to talk to each other how would the dragon race be able to say "you have our saviour, can we have her back?" or much else for that matter. All they can do is fight the humans for her return.
Think about it, if someone killed a mate of yours and took something becuase they feel threatened by you and your mate cus others like you had hurt them only moments before but which you had nothing to do with, how would you react if you couldn't talk to them and you needed what they took?
- Why the dragons can transform into human-form (what for?) Well believe it or not, the only reason why were hear today doing what we are is because of a appendage called a thumb.
Without thumbs our ancestors wouldn't have griped rocks or sticks, wouldn't have made fire, wouldn't have done anything except became like the dinosaurs.
Haven't you ever wondered why the dinosaur's in 14 billion years didn't do what we have in two thousand?
You cant say "dragons evolved to this advanced state" without saying they used a humanoid form to be able to use tools. You can say they built clans a communication becuase animals have done that in our world today however they will never be like us if they don't have thumbs hence why they took a humanoid form and later on took a smaller humanoid form, still scaly and dragon features but they are the right size to do human activity like evolution. I probably should have made that clearer.
They would use bombs and missiles and heavy artillery, including bio weapons, and unless the dragons have some sort of protection against such things, they would surely lose. On the other hand, if the dragons could develop their own technology, then you have a different story. When the mars-type gate was opened it was for about an hour at most, they didn't really know what they were doing as well.
They sent a probe, it said you can enter to have a look around but their was no video though the gate due to the interference, only audio wave lengths which were more simple and less easy to degrade. They sent the exo team next for samples and to see what the place was like, interplanetary exploration and habitation is big with the human society hear so why not interdenominational if thats what this is.
Anyways, the reason bio weapons and that weren't used is becuase it was about one day total time period and the gate on the mars-type world away from the colony, bio weapons take time to deploy, their wasn't time and besides you don't go throwing highly poisonous weapons into areas which you want to send people into to collect rare Crystal's worth billions in the human market.
The working gate was shut down and the other gates, the hell gates, were opened by the dragons in areas which which were full of monsters, most were destroyed on the human side but if you've ever seen final fantasy the sprites within you would know that some monsters cant be killed by a bullet. These people don't know how to destroy magic monsters, they don't know much magic at all so they use what they can in civilian areas but are then stuck with monsters in non-civilian ares which within 1 day of them being their they don't know how to kill. Again i should have explained this.
And as for the dragons being to weak to deal with the exos, did i say the dragons won the battle over the exos, nope i didn't.
The two tank exos were destroyed as even metal can melt under what high imperial dragons are packing in magical fire spells. The exos i mentioned destroyed two dragons and took the oracle easily.
As for when they meet properly, why is it so hard to conceive that a dragons scales {not to mention the magical generated shielding the things must have} wouldn't be able to take a few cannon shots, ever seen Reign Of Fire the movie about dragons?
The other issue is the "seeing the future" aspect of those oracle dragons you mentioned. The ability to see the future REQUIRES either a fixed fate system (in which no matter what, something is going to happen) or some kind of weird explanation, which I hope you will provide. You don't know how seeing the future works do you.
If say for example i was physic, if i saw someones fate that would happen if i said nothing and was in no way part of it in any shape or form. If i did have something to do with it, it would change to something new where i didn't have anything to do with it becuase my movements would be different as ive seen whats going to happen, or not becuase i was meant to know.
Anyways, if i told the guy what was going to happen they i would see a new future which the guy doesn't know about, if i like it then i say nothing and it works out find, if i don't i say something and if he believes me of course then it changes again and i see something new.
If the oracle said "the vaya are attacking from the north" then a traps set in the north, the oracle says nothing more and the vaya walk right into the trap, the good guys win and the oracle sees the next attack, go back to start of paragraph.
A more minor flaw is when that expedition group entered the gateway and wanted to bring back a live dragon as proof: didn't they have video-recorders that would prove the hostility of the region. They wouldn't risk losing people for some stupid reason like that. One: they needed samples of the Crystal's, i did say Crystal's are worth loads of money in the human world, if there good ones then that company has just walked in on a gold mine.
Two: Video though the gate is not possible {i know i didn't say about that before but I'm saying that now} so they need someone to go though and check it out.
Three: The probe said the atmosphere is ok to breath and that so why not send humans to go see if theirs no immediate threat, also the star gate sg1 crew never went without weapons, heavy armed exos with the machine strength to bring back a Nice big lump of mega valuable rock sounds precisely what humans would be doing if you ask me.
Four: The oracle dragon is not a fighter, its a small dragon so easy to overpower and control, they only wanted the dragon after they were assaulted by 5 fallen dragons. They need it to experiment on to build these so called Bio weapons you were on about anyway, if they were hostile they could kill the dragons and take the Chrystal, if not then they could figer out a way to communicate with it and talk to the other dragons. It makes perfect sense to take one, plus if you want more of a reason, the leaders of earth are company's, politicians with more skepticism and suspicion then anyone else alive and you want to go up to them and say "hi, we just spent some of our expensive resources which you didn't really want to give us in going to another world, we found dragons who destroyed two of our number and we left huge Crystal's worth billions behind to, can we have some more money?" HA!
I believe thats everything, thanks for that.
[edited by - Siolis on March 14, 2004 7:30:07 PM]
SD
Ok hear is my story line thus far in readable form.:
The Human World
The main character will be called Halo, his nick name, his real name i haven't decided upon.
The world he lives in is one which has a lot of advanced technology, nano bots, genetic research, space travel at a tidy land to land air travel cost, exos {my form of a body armour mecha design}, super compact super computers, just begging to build the first fully functional AI system ETC.
His world contains gate ways called "Helix Monoliths", giant towers or underground temple like facility's which house a gate way system which leads to another plan of existence. Their origins are unknown to humans but they are scattered over every planet human kind have found thus far, research is currently underway to find out who built them and more importantly, what their purpose is.
The earthen world is run not by government's but corporation's, they own and run country's on earth, space station colonies, orbital platforms around each of the 3 livable planets and mining stations on each of the two meteor belts which encircle their sun.
Earth Type: This initial world of humans
The first planet of the solar system is an earth type place, mostly water with landmass's which are chunks of land which were once a giant super Continent many millions of years ago.
Just as our earth, it once housed a number of different dinosaur species, they were wiped out when the planet had a major disaster on its crust which altered the atmosphere. The dinosaur's, unable to adapt due to poor evolution were wiped out in the process in the following ice age on most of the planet. The populous know of the dinosaur's due to fossilized remains.
The humans of this world developed like we did, apes, cromags, neanderthals, humans to be brief about it. They slowly developed into advanced humans with a rich culture and highly advanced technology.
Their biggest set of achievements are as follows:
Terraformation of the mars-type planet which lies beyond the meteor belt between the earth-type and the sun, the mars-type being closest to the sun.
mining colony's on both meteor belts either side of the earth-type and a uninhabitable Jupiter type planet.
They have also made contact with another form of intelligent life living on a larger earth-type planet beyond the second meteor belt of their soler system. {not sure weather this will be included, just i like my idea about an underwater city dome called avalona, details not important hear}
{{I made a diagram in word-pad, i hope it doesn't get warped by copying it into the message box hear, if it dose just e-mail me for a copy if you are really interested in this. =) }}
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Diagram dose not show other planets
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Sun......Mars Type.........Meteor Belt........Earth Type........Juipter Type..................Meteor Belt........Second Earth Type
............{Newland}
{{Think gundam wing society but with overly more technology like energy Shields and stuff. The human-dragon conflict's one major detail are as follows:}}
The major element of this worlds current conflict are as follows:
The old leader of one of the earth-types major companies {think america with scruples} is a philanthropist, he wants whats best for his people on the earth type and is also the one who set up the mars-type terraformation project. In his time the below story line begins.
The Dragon World
This world is the opposite world to that of the humans, its major species are Dragons, not the giant lizards which you are right now thinking of in your mind. These dragons are evolved, they are still giant lizards however they have developed to have civilizations, culture, in essence, intelligence.
Their evolution led them from being just lizards to developing clans, they learned how to use magic proficiently and slowly began to learn more and more about their world by manipulating their environment to serve them more, they made housing and hunting areas, tools which they griped in their claws like spears they could drop from heights ETC.
Dragons in this era have developed how to turn their body's, via a magical means, into humanoid form and full human looking form.
Only adult dragons have the ability to do this however, they need a degree of skill and experience with it to start transforming at will, their language however is not comparable to human speech, obviously it will be english for the player and so on to understand them but in no way will it be english to them. {important fact...and no i don't have a reason why they learned how to do this...yet}
In human form the dragons retain their trites of what they were, for example, an earth dragon can still cast earth magic and still has an earth type but if in dragon form their armour slowed their movement they can move faster in human form depending on their dragon size, i mean if their a small dragon but heavily armored which makes them slow then their human speed will increase, if they are a naturally slow dragon then they will be a naturally slow human but have a strong body.
The dragon world, as the human world, has some helix monoliths, it is home to far more magical energy than the human world, areas known as the Chrystal Sources are abundant all over the planet. The Helix Monoliths draw their power from these sources and todays dragons use them to move between continents on their world unaware of their inter world traveling ability.
{{Their world is like that of final fantasy 10 in neo-lithic magical design but more like ours in a corporation and money run society, I'm working on that but the details of that are not necessary for this.}}
The dragon society dose have some failings to it, the fallen and Vaya.
The dragons, unlike humans, change over time due to their views and their environment they live in, for example, if the dragon is a fire type and live in an icy region overtime their type will change to be that of an icy dragon, their magic ability and type will change to be that of an icy dragon too. Same with their views about the world, if they are a holy dragon and they take a liking to battle and evil acts their appearance changes from that of a holy and good dragon to that of an evil one.
The fallen were once any number of different dragons who succumbed to the lure of Chrystal power, just as the helix monoliths draw their power from Chrystal sources, the fallen are addicted to the crystals energy, this addiction came about due to their greed and corruption which has seeped into their hearts, any dragon of any age is susceptible to it and usually once your a fallen you don't become any other kind of dragon.
The vaya are vampire dragons, dragons who feed on other dragons and drink their blood, their are blood dragons and other dragons who feed on blood, however the vaya are the only kind who drink dragon blood, hence why they are rejected from the rest of society.
The vaya have intelligence, they are merely vampiric dragons, outcast from society but not barbaric, the fallen due to their addiction are no better than beasts looking for their next helping of energy and anyone who stands in their way will die.
Pandora Tomorrow
The story i have to far is just the initial back story so bare with me.
50 YEARS AGO
Terraformation of the mars-type world has just finished, the first colonist's are arriving to begin work on a new life on the mars-type world.
On earth the president of one of the largest companies is being congratulated on his success with the new world.
In the meeting with his council his science department present a new discovery to him with the "Helix monoliths" which have been found on the mars-type world, crystals found on earth which they use in their reactors and such can be used to power the monoliths. He is wary of this becuase its only best guess that if one of the towers is activated it will open a gateway to somewhere, if it blows up or something and with so many around the mars-type world then the planet could be destroyed or something, however his adviser is optimistic that the devices will work fine so he gives the go ahead to the project team.
The begin their work by activating one of the monoliths away from the new settlements so if something did go wrong it wouldn't hurt the civilians. A gate was opened by the monolith and after some robotic exploration by the team they found another world on the other side so they give the go-ahead to an Exo team {my mecha design, agile human armour which has its own on-board computer systems and heavy weaponry, think double human sized gundams}
They go though and find a lot of crystals, superb find for a world which values rare crystals more than diamond. As they move though the area they get attacked by a small group of Fallen Dragons {mentioned above}, they are quickly dispatched by heavy Vulcan's on the Juggernaut exos {exo tanks}.
Believing this world was inhabited by violent giant lizards they wanted to retreat, however they needed something to show the council above empty Vulcan Armour case's so they were ordered to proceed and collect a live dragon using a massive taser type gun.
A little further into this Chrystal maze and they found a group of dragons moving though, 6 the same looking and one smaller oddly colored dragon, asleep on a carriage being pulled by some strange crecher similar to an elephant but lower to the floor and no long nose but horns.
Further across the canyon's another group of fallen led by some vaya were coming to attack the dragon group. Luckily the group was being followed by more guards who noticed the vaya's group first and went to intercept them.
After the fighting began the convoy increased speed and two of the five guards when to assist. After they left the Exo team decided to launch their attack, after killing the first dragon and wounding the other they took the smaller dragon who was now crying loudly.
Moments later a group of 10 dragons came from the area further along the wider area of the canyon, the exo team had no choice but to run for their lives leaving some of the equipment behind but taking the now tasered dragon with them. They lost two of their number while flying out.
After they escaped though the portal they made, it was quickly shut down before a dragon came though.
The dragon was quickly transported under heavy sedation to a research facility on earth and shown to the council of the corporation.
STOLEN ORACLE
The exo team unwitting stole the oracle of the dragon world.
The dragon world only stays in one piece due to the oracles, a race of dragons who can see and feel the future. They work with powerful dragon races like the Solen Dragons {Sun Dragons} and the descendent's of the Black Dragons, {Black-Scaled powerful dragons, a royal clan who descended from a powerful dragon race ruled by Bahamut mostly destroyed by the Vayen War} and fight the Vaya and Fallen.
They stop the Vaya And Fallen from taking over the entire dragon world but without the Oracles telling them where the Vaya will strike next that becomes far more difficult if not impossible. The oracle it not only a tool for war either, the dragons also talk to the oracle for blessings, she is a status symbol of peace and stability, without the oracle things can and will fall apart.
HELL GATES
The dragons in retaliation open up the hell gates, Helix Monoliths which have origin points in areas where the fallen and vaya have built up settlements and hives. Monsters from the dragon world swarmed though the gates and out into exit points all over the mars-type and earth-type worlds. After the initial fallout of the opening most of the gates were shut down but some areas became to infested to purge of monsters and fallen. These areas became known as the dead-zones for obvious reasons, battle now ensues to purge these areas but things are not well else where.
DRAGON WAR
So what next, neither side can talk to each other, neither knows what each other wants, unknowing war ensues.
On earth a new president of the company responsible for the original incursion into the dragon world has just been ushered in. The son of the old president has taken his fathers place, he shares the councils views, they were eager to have him replace his farther who was always arguing with the council about everything, never openly but insides always knew everything was slow to be put into action becuase of the debating of the council and its president who couldn't be taken out of power by force and had to many close people totally loyal to him.
His son gets the council to pass the law previously baned on genetic engineering and the super solider project so they have some more powerful weapons to fight the monsters in the deadzones.
...
...
P-H-E-W
...
...hmm...seems to be about it...for a moment at least...yeah.
Ok then, thats about all i got for the mo, gimme some views heh heh heh and if anyone takes my idea you will be struck down from above by a very large hammer!...that and a law suit if you don't produce the game before 9am tomorrow. 
{Yes i am that paranoid!}
Siolis Deoden
PS: This is very rough work, i haven't reread my work, i haven't checked it over, i haven't made sure all of this makes sense, i just want some opinions on whats what and if anyone dose see something which makes no sense at all or i contradict my self please tell me so i can edit it tomorrow.
Thanks for reading. 
