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Kill the King!
Author
You must have surely noticed that in most games especially side scrollers the enemies become stronger and more powerful as they advance the hierarchy level.
I mean we''ve all played games where when you had killed all the dummy,weak,just-soldier enemies you had to deal with the level''s boss.And as you advanced levels bosses became stronger and stronger until you met with the super-boss,the leader of all,which was the most powerful of all.
Ok,side scrollers are not famous for their realism.
But what about RTS/RPG games?
In most of them the same hierarchy rules of the side scrollers apply too.The higher the character''s rank the stronger he is.
It doesn''t matter if it is a modern army or a medieval one.
The general is much more powerful in battle time than the soldier and the king is much stronger than the knight.
Well excuse me but something is wrong here!
A general or a king may have the appropriate experience from battles and may have the appropriate strategic knowledge but in no way he is more capable in battle time than the soldier.Especially if he is old.
Just imagine a 70 year old king battling with a 20 year old soldier.You can surely guess the winner!
Unfortunately in most games a King is a super hero,a war machine.
Easy to kill,hard to be killed.Sometimes his power is so big that he can only be faced by another king.
Well if you want the king to take part in a battle give him the power he deserves.And if the king can not avoid the conflict then don''t hesitate:
Kill the King!
Voodoo4
Actually the King or general could very well be better in battle. If your talking about a medieval army then usually the reason that a general is a general or a knight is a knight instead of a lowly man-at-arms is because he has done something to deserve that honor. That usually means killing a lot of people and proving his ability in battle. I guess it doesn't make quite as much sense for a general because in a modern military advancing isn't usually through killing, more like service records and such.
If you look at an RTS like Age of Empires 2 then you have the worst units (in combat) being the workers, then the infantry units, then the horseback units, then the gunnery units. But if you eliminate the gunnery units because of their technology then you have the higher ranked knights being stronger than the infantry, and the reason that they are higher ranked is because when they were infantry they showed their skill in battle and got a promotion as a result.
Now I know that you can't actually get promoted to a knight in the real world and that it had more to do with family and power than skill, but theoretically, a higher rank being achieved through better battle skills makes sense to me, and for a game I think it works well.
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- outRider -
Edited by - outRider on August 3, 2000 4:17:24 PM
If you look at an RTS like Age of Empires 2 then you have the worst units (in combat) being the workers, then the infantry units, then the horseback units, then the gunnery units. But if you eliminate the gunnery units because of their technology then you have the higher ranked knights being stronger than the infantry, and the reason that they are higher ranked is because when they were infantry they showed their skill in battle and got a promotion as a result.
Now I know that you can't actually get promoted to a knight in the real world and that it had more to do with family and power than skill, but theoretically, a higher rank being achieved through better battle skills makes sense to me, and for a game I think it works well.
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- outRider -
Edited by - outRider on August 3, 2000 4:17:24 PM
Author
Yes it works well in a game(we all like the super hero thing 
) but you don''t get very high just by killing.You may get some honors but the higher ranks don''t work this way even in medieval times.
Who could actually count how many someone killed!
Knights became knights because they completed some quests which sometimes had little to do with battles.
And surely kings were not knights previously.
They were just sons of Kings.And as you said the higher ranks were taken by those who had power and influence.
Voodoo4
) but you don''t get very high just by killing.You may get some honors but the higher ranks don''t work this way even in medieval times.Who could actually count how many someone killed!
Knights became knights because they completed some quests which sometimes had little to do with battles.
And surely kings were not knights previously.
They were just sons of Kings.And as you said the higher ranks were taken by those who had power and influence.
Voodoo4
The thing is Voodoo, this thought strongly emits the feeling that you want things to change for the sake of change. If you just stop to think about the logic behind the hierarchy...
-Game start: player is inexperienced, maybe weak. Therefore, so are opponents. Bosses are also easy to ease the player in.
-Game middle: player is better, so opponents get necessarily harder. Bosses are also more difficult, because now the player can take it.
-Game end: the player is at the peak of his/her game, and is raring to kick the ass of whatever supervillain is behind the plot of the game. Villains are very hard and the final boss is the hardest, to provide both the biggest challenge AND the biggest sense of pride after winning for the player.
...and it starts to make sense, doesn''t it? I mean, we (as game designers) want to REWARD the player for continual play and advancement, don''t we? Would you be disappointed if at the end of an RPG you return to the town you started in to face off with the final baddie, and on the way got into a battle with level 1 soldiers that you beat when you were first playing the game, and suddenly the game says: "You have become an old fart. Therefore, the young, supple soldier overpowered you easily. Game Over."
Is that injustice or what? Now maybe you could have a system in which you gain more team members as you advance, so even though you''re an old general by the time you''re at the end of the game you have a fleet of 50 men to guard you. But that''s a whole new playing element, not just a cool feature to throw in for realism.
You need to think hard about what the player expects as far as advancement and "seniority." Making a 100+ hour player as weak as a newbie is not fair.
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Changing the future of adventure gaming...
Atypical Interactive
-Game start: player is inexperienced, maybe weak. Therefore, so are opponents. Bosses are also easy to ease the player in.
-Game middle: player is better, so opponents get necessarily harder. Bosses are also more difficult, because now the player can take it.
-Game end: the player is at the peak of his/her game, and is raring to kick the ass of whatever supervillain is behind the plot of the game. Villains are very hard and the final boss is the hardest, to provide both the biggest challenge AND the biggest sense of pride after winning for the player.
...and it starts to make sense, doesn''t it? I mean, we (as game designers) want to REWARD the player for continual play and advancement, don''t we? Would you be disappointed if at the end of an RPG you return to the town you started in to face off with the final baddie, and on the way got into a battle with level 1 soldiers that you beat when you were first playing the game, and suddenly the game says: "You have become an old fart. Therefore, the young, supple soldier overpowered you easily. Game Over."
Is that injustice or what? Now maybe you could have a system in which you gain more team members as you advance, so even though you''re an old general by the time you''re at the end of the game you have a fleet of 50 men to guard you. But that''s a whole new playing element, not just a cool feature to throw in for realism.
You need to think hard about what the player expects as far as advancement and "seniority." Making a 100+ hour player as weak as a newbie is not fair.
------------------------------
Changing the future of adventure gaming...
Atypical Interactive
That reminds me, I was playing Fallout the other day and near the end of the game I suddently found a base of raiders close to the place where the game had started. The raiders had kidnapped some girl but because I was a Level 12 "champion of the land" by then I just walked up to the leader and said "Give me the girl or else..." and the leader surrendered.
Later, when I had delivered the girl safely back into her village ,I went back to the raider camp and killed every single of them. I just went through the camp like another Rambo guy and all the raiders died like flies.
He he, that gave a really strong sense of power! There should be such a scene in every RPG.
Regards
nicba
Later, when I had delivered the girl safely back into her village ,I went back to the raider camp and killed every single of them. I just went through the camp like another Rambo guy and all the raiders died like flies.
He he, that gave a really strong sense of power! There should be such a scene in every RPG.
Regards
nicba
LOL! Maybe you should read "a new outlook on rpg''s" to see what I say to that 
A good Learning Experience for all 
-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)
Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet :)
A good Learning Experience for all -Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)
Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet :)
i thought one got to be a knight nowadays as well as old by crawly bumlicking the person who bestoded? knighthood.
get down on your knees and hands , i anoit thee , arise sir "dont mind taking .."
thank god my fair land has just renounced them (knighthoods)
get down on your knees and hands , i anoit thee , arise sir "dont mind taking .."
thank god my fair land has just renounced them (knighthoods)
that would be new zealand then?
-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)
Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet :)
-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)
Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet :)
Voodoo, you get mad props from me for this post. Mad props...
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Are you aware that the people who bring you television actually refer to it openly as "programming?"
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Are you aware that the people who bring you television actually refer to it openly as "programming?"
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