🎉 Celebrating 25 Years of GameDev.net! 🎉
Not many can claim 25 years on the Internet! Join us in celebrating this milestone. Learn more about our history, and thank you for being a part of our community!
RPG's - When is There Too Much Role Playing?
Author
Where should a game company stop when it comes to RPGs? When the player character has needs like a sim? Is that not enough, or too far? If your character looks like a stereotypical blond, should you be forced make her act like one? An unbounded game (ie yeah, there are quests, but if you don''t feel like doing them, you can go visit the tavern on a remote island if you want) will definitely need to be limited in some way. Should meanial tasks to keep PC morale up be required to prevent the six thousand mile trip from being too easy? Is it right to force PC''s to act in a certain way since most people choose a character to be an extension of themselves in the gaming world?
I think that there is a point where a game company has to draw the line. Because the whole term stands for Role Playing Game, and the Game part is being forgotten very rapidly nowadays.
Making the character a complete reproduction of a human in real life is not a game, it''s real life. Real life sucks as we all know (ask the programmers they''ll give the worst response about life, a robotic dude called Marvin might even kill u). There must be a game element that makes the real part of it more fun and fantasy (not necessarily medieval in that fantasy sense). Ultima 8 and Ultima 9 were like this, the original ones required you to feed your party etc etc as they got hungry but they soon realised that it wasn''t supposed to be Sim-Britannia, it was the Ultima series - which were a series of fun games. If the game is made boring in order to sustain realism (ie many of the things u mention) then it''s no longer a role playing game.
Making the character a complete reproduction of a human in real life is not a game, it''s real life. Real life sucks as we all know (ask the programmers they''ll give the worst response about life, a robotic dude called Marvin might even kill u). There must be a game element that makes the real part of it more fun and fantasy (not necessarily medieval in that fantasy sense). Ultima 8 and Ultima 9 were like this, the original ones required you to feed your party etc etc as they got hungry but they soon realised that it wasn''t supposed to be Sim-Britannia, it was the Ultima series - which were a series of fun games. If the game is made boring in order to sustain realism (ie many of the things u mention) then it''s no longer a role playing game.
I think it can be summed up in one short sentence:
Roleplaying is NOT simulation, but stimulation.
Adding the smallest details and most menial tasks to a so-called roleplaying game does not increase the roleplaying. It detracts from it because you are distracted from furthering your character and getting immersed in the story.
Books don''t mention when the main character goes to the bathroom, do they?
Give me one more medicated peaceful moment.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.
Roleplaying is NOT simulation, but stimulation.
Adding the smallest details and most menial tasks to a so-called roleplaying game does not increase the roleplaying. It detracts from it because you are distracted from furthering your character and getting immersed in the story.
Books don''t mention when the main character goes to the bathroom, do they?
Give me one more medicated peaceful moment.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.
Hey Whirlwind. I''m working on a cross between a sim and an RPG so this question comes up for me a lot. I mostly agree with the last 2 posters. Few extra points:
1) If you want to add sim elements, ask yourself why? Is it to make the player feel like they''re in a real world? Is it because you''re tired of just killing monsters? Is it because you want more freedom? Be sure you know what''s important about the sime elements.
2) Choose only fun sim elements. If you allow for hanging out in a tavern, there should be interesting things that you can do while there; talk to people, get drunk, pickpocket other drunks, make shady deals with the bartender... you get the idea...
3) Only simulate DRAMATIC elements: Menial tasks should only become important if they''re dramatic. Take eating: If you want to include this, it should only be when the player has an interesting and dramatic choice to make. In my design, food is never a factor in town as long as you have cash. In the wilderness, foraging and use of supplies you''ve bought is automatic. To me, eating is only interesting when you''re running out of food. Maybe it makes you have to risk a dangerous trip into Orc country to hunt. Or maybe you have to decide if you want to become a cannibal. Whatever. I say only include it if it creates drama and tension.
4) Limits: A great limit is money. For me, no matter where you are there''s a cost of living. Some towns are more expensive than others. You can stay away from towns, but you still need to buy supplies. So if you do nothing but wander, you''ll eventually run out of cash... just like in real life. This creates incentives to DO something... steal, take quests, track down bounties.. trade... whatever.
I think adding simulation elements can make your game more than just another hack & slash clone, but you have to choose the right elements to simulate.
--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
1) If you want to add sim elements, ask yourself why? Is it to make the player feel like they''re in a real world? Is it because you''re tired of just killing monsters? Is it because you want more freedom? Be sure you know what''s important about the sime elements.
2) Choose only fun sim elements. If you allow for hanging out in a tavern, there should be interesting things that you can do while there; talk to people, get drunk, pickpocket other drunks, make shady deals with the bartender... you get the idea...
3) Only simulate DRAMATIC elements: Menial tasks should only become important if they''re dramatic. Take eating: If you want to include this, it should only be when the player has an interesting and dramatic choice to make. In my design, food is never a factor in town as long as you have cash. In the wilderness, foraging and use of supplies you''ve bought is automatic. To me, eating is only interesting when you''re running out of food. Maybe it makes you have to risk a dangerous trip into Orc country to hunt. Or maybe you have to decide if you want to become a cannibal. Whatever. I say only include it if it creates drama and tension.
4) Limits: A great limit is money. For me, no matter where you are there''s a cost of living. Some towns are more expensive than others. You can stay away from towns, but you still need to buy supplies. So if you do nothing but wander, you''ll eventually run out of cash... just like in real life. This creates incentives to DO something... steal, take quests, track down bounties.. trade... whatever.
I think adding simulation elements can make your game more than just another hack & slash clone, but you have to choose the right elements to simulate.
--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
Wavinator touched on a critical point. I like to think of it as layering the experience. When you write an RPG make it like a simulation and then provide ways for the player to handle the tasks of the simulation without detracting from gameplay. Most of the time when you talk about eating, it is mentioned that it is boring. Well it is only boring until you''re running out of water and in the desert. I like to create the simulation part of it and leave it there for the players to manage if the choose to. Some players like that level of control in a RPG. For those that don''t I try to provide automation for it so they have to worry about say having money in their account and replenishing only that. With this money example, as long as the player has the cash maintenance of the character just happens behind the scenes. When they run out though, this is a different matter.
I think using this as a guide stick can help meet both the simulation and the role playing aspects of a RPG while not detracting from gameplay to a point where the game feels like a strategy/resource management game.
Kressilac
I think using this as a guide stick can help meet both the simulation and the role playing aspects of a RPG while not detracting from gameplay to a point where the game feels like a strategy/resource management game.
Kressilac
This, like all else in design, depends hugely upon the game the designer wishes to make and the experience she wants the player to have.
The way I eventually intend to put things in my RPG is so that there is all of those so called tedious tasks that can be managed by the player, but they are handled by scripts that do the behind-the-scenes automation. The player can then remove these scripts or modify them to do the tasks a little differently (like only depositing half their cash, or ensuring that they are carrying 50gp or something). The language needs to be fairly strict (so as to remove the cheating element) but I think that it will improve the gameplay if the automated tasks can be switched on or off (that way the player can choose whether or not they want to automate a feature which they may consider fun).
Just my $(2*rant/100)
-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)
Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet :)
Just my $(2*rant/100)
-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)
Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet :)
Just a silly short idea, based on the "cash for automatic food and lodging" idea.
In Belgium, there used to be a law that you HAD to carry the price of one bread around at all times, or you were considered a vagabond. How about displaying that to the player in the game? Once his funds drop below a certain threshold, show him as a beggar
That might be a large enough hint.
Give me one more medicated peaceful moment.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.
In Belgium, there used to be a law that you HAD to carry the price of one bread around at all times, or you were considered a vagabond. How about displaying that to the player in the game? Once his funds drop below a certain threshold, show him as a beggar
That might be a large enough hint.
Give me one more medicated peaceful moment.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.
LOL! I like it.. that is going straight into the doc... I would like to see if the player dropps coin on the ground, any vagabonds come and clean it up. If the player complains, then they should be instructed by a guard (who is keeping the peace) that any coin that hits the earth is property of they who are first to take possession of it. This oughto make the player think twice before leaving piles while he/she goes off to battle to avoid losing a %age...
-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)
Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet
Edited by - dwarfsoft on August 11, 2000 7:33:13 AM
-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)
Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet
Edited by - dwarfsoft on August 11, 2000 7:33:13 AM
Author
I guess it all comes down to personal guidelines (having the player needing water) and common sense. It doesn''t make any sense to have the player need water while engaging in fresh water swims, but salt water swims will require the player to cary a stash of it. Having the player experience the call of nature on the other hand might not have a place in your game, but might in others.
Sleep and rest I guess roll back into what the feel and level of RPG do you want to have. Or how much of a simulation you want the player to experience. But isn''t an RPG supposed to be a simulation for the player to experience a different world?
Sleep and rest I guess roll back into what the feel and level of RPG do you want to have. Or how much of a simulation you want the player to experience. But isn''t an RPG supposed to be a simulation for the player to experience a different world?
This topic is closed to new replies.
Advertisement
Popular Topics
Advertisement
