I''m sorry, what was the topic of this thread? I was too busy fighting my NetHack addiction to pay attention to what I was reading.

If you design a mmorpg the same way as you do a single players rpg then it would make sence to presume that there will be overcrowding problems arising through the game. So yeah, it does make sence to start afresh with the concept building for mmorpg''s over single player models.

"So you're the one that designed that game are you?"
*Gulp* "Umm, yeah"

I''m one of the anonymous posters that helped to distract the original thread. Not a designer but, like most non-designers, I think I should be. Anyhow, if a gameplayer''s opinion is welcome I''d be happy to share it here.

As a roleplayer first and a computer gamer second I''ve found online roleplaying an interesting concept in theory but rarely done well in execution. Frankly I''m in complete concurrence with Landfish''s summation of the situation but I think a functional MMORPG that can support actual IC roleplaying is entirely possible.

The problem with MMORPGs from a roleplayer''s point of view is that the code, hence the reality, of the engine doesn''t care a whit about characterization. Any roleplaying is superficial at best and generally beside the actual point - mugging monsters and raising levels. Powergamers rightly scoff at the poofters playing make believe in a world they can''t affect and aren''t even really a part of. Any biography, and hence motivation for a character''s persona or any goals aside from being high level one day, won''t stand up to scruitiny - the events never happened as far as the world engine is concerned.

Socialization is crippled aside from flocking together for defense without the underlaying social structures of family, clan and country. Familial groups are less than meaningless without real property and economic underpinnings. Wars are trite without passion and conviction and, oh yes, greed. Without player character rulers and factions - what''s there to talk about? NPC orcs spawning? A fancy new magic item? What''s the point of having power if there''s nothing to do with it but get more power? What''s heroism or sacrifice without death? Real death?

Create the channels for socialization and competition in a setting with real limited resources and real character death. Allow for formal biological relationships and informal factional ones. Tie inheritance of property to those relationships.

With players naturally doing what players do best, creating mayhem, a game master will never have to write a story again. The players will do all the work. And with real death in the picture PKing will become a very risky hobby and one not attempted without considerable reason.

Toss the old ideas about dungeons and scripted modules and levels and monsters. Instead present a social world where characters can wander in and, just dealing with each other, form dynamic factions in a balanced and somewhat realistic world. UO was onto the right idea but reincarnation and the typically ludicrous power inflation of a D&D-style levelling game make any imagined depth of economy and society impossible to simulate.