Some thoughts / questions on in game hacking: I''m trying to think of what futuristic hacking could be made of, and what would make it fun. Hacking seems to be about gaining access to information, control of systems, sabotage, and mis-information. What kind of gameplay would a hacker have? Here''s a stab at it: The futuristic hacker has a skill and a "deck" (portable computer) he uses to access computers ala a William Gibson novel. Once he accesses a system, he''s taken into "Gridspace," the VR representation of the Net (or whatever it would be called). He can follow "gridlines" into any system he has access to. Since the future''s wireless, this means he can jump to any system that''s being transmitted to. There would be public and private transmission nodes. Systems are simply represented as either having information, giving control of things / devices, or as gateways or doors to other systems. I''m open to additional detail here. So the play is: Find a good terminal. Access Gridspace, and deploy programs like spells (digital camoflague, identity reflection, routine mimics, etc.) Follow the gridlines to your target, successfully bypassing checkpoints along the way. The longer you''re at a location, the more info / control you can have, but the more likely you are to be traced as well. As an example, let''s say you were hacking the Pentagon. You''d navigate through the public Gridspace, looking for an access port to the Military''s Net (this could be information you bought in a back alley deal, btw ) Once inside, you''d have to deploy the right programs to cloak and cover yourself (these also being things that you''d bought, probably black market). Graphically, you''d be like moving on rails through a map (the public net, with all it''s ports). The city / area you''re in would be lightly blended below that map, so to hack the Pentagon you''d move the icon that represents your hack to the faded out Pentagon. Hacking could be very useful in an RPG context. You could seal or unseal doors, operate equipment like robots remotely, and maybe even access information that has the Yakuza, CIA, and megacorporations all after you! Thoughts? -------------------- Just waiting for the mothership...

Shadowrun on the SNES & Genesis had a 133t hax0ring mode ;P It played out alot like you describe, but they pulled it off really poorly. It basically amounted to a mini Dragon-Warrior RPG, only instead of Slimes, you offed different ICE programs, represented by ugly floating polygons. Its worse than it sounds.

Still, it would be a good mode in a game. Just the Neuromancer-type flavor made it one of my favorite parts tho'', so if you designed it well (even if you _just_ updated the graphics) it could be really awesome.

If you see the Buddha on the road, Kill Him. -apocryphal

*nagging mode activated*

you really, really, really, should take ANY book by William Gibson and read. I mean, this guy *created* the cyberpunk genre, and most roleplaying games that use the label "cyberpunk" somehow were inspired by his writings ... and guess what, most of them use similar systems for the whole Matrix/Net/whatever thing. I think Shadowrun is one of the most complete (though I never played it, but it''s reknowned for its size and complexity) with a new revised version that came out a year or two ago ?
You would definitely be inspired.
Of course, if you kow about actual hacking/cracking/etc ... it''s much easier to create something interesting (dont try too realist here, it sucks).

If you must read only one book, read Neuromancer, by William Gibson. The adventure of a poor hacker who got toasted, and his offered a new chance, against a damn dangerous run on the Net.

youpla :-P

well .... I wont enter into this kindof stuff really, jsut to say that yes Shadowrun has become a reference. But if you want real cyberpunk, Shadowrun is not the real thing. I mean, cyberpunk is Gibson, and Gibson never put Trolls in his stuff. Shadowrun is an excellent game, but it''s not pure Cyberpunk. There are no ressurection spell in Neuromancer. Period.

I found the name of the book I am talking about : it''s Virtual Realities 2.0
(well ok, you mention it already). since I dont play the game, I dunno if the latest version in the corebook is up to date, but I was told this book was a total relooking of the Matrix system. Apparently, the system goes, from a basic metaphor of the dungeons and "door, creature, treasure" (read "Node, ICE program, data") to something ... well ... different
I guess you gonna have to find a Shadowrun addict with book above mentioned.

youpla :-P

quote: Original post by ahw

*nagging mode activated*

Hey! What makes you think I haven't checked these out?!?!?

One of the things I liked about Gibson's settings was the whole high tech low-life thing. Just like drug lords who arm themselves with the latest in weapons tech today. It works really well, and no he didn't need to plunk in friggin' trolls & crap (ahem, stuff I mean) into a perfectly awesome SF setting. (Okay, I'm biased, so sue me )

I am struggling, however, to project his work a bit farther forward into the future. What's hacking like in a setting with starships and planetary travel? My God, what are computers themselves like, and what about the Matrix/Grid/Internet?

I think that a real representation of the Grid would have to be pretty intense to do it justice. Probably a virtual world unto itself. But that's a bit too much work for a game who's sole focus isn't the hacking (it's a game mechanic, not the whole thing).

What do you think, btw, of the fictional downsides to hacking? Do you get the shakes? (Jonny Neumonic's Neural Attenuation Syndrom) The one metaphor I won't touch because I think it's dufus is the "head exploding" crap. Lame!

But maybe hooking your mind to a machine could result in personality or skill augmentation. Or maybe your "ghost" could be hacked (Ghost in the Shell) and you find yourself doing things that you were completely unaware of... like phoning Police and telling them where you are... hehe...

I like the idea of discovering hidden personality defects, maybe things that happen to you while you sleep, or psychotic illusions while awake (Tyler Durden, anyone????!!! )

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Just waiting for the mothership...

Edited by - Wavinator on October 17, 2000 4:22:49 PM

jsut wondering ... are you and Dwarfsoft the same guy really ?

As for Gibson, well, it''s just I always say go and read stuff ... so sometimes I wonder if people dont get tired of it

The classic way to do hacking and matrix runs in RPG is to basically use hacking as a metaphor for magic, and the runs are basically dungeon crawling. Virii, ICE programs, are the monsters and weapons, vital data and access to devices command are the treasures...
One thing you could check out if only it was available on video would be the serie called FutureCast. It was aired on Channel 4 (english TV) this year. It was a serie of pseudo Documentaries that absolutely kicked ass, with one story on Genetic therapy and their abuse, another on the unification of all comunication system through the use of a trojan virus, that turn totally berserk ... etc. Very very realistic stuff, based on a lot of nowadays technology that are pushed just a little bit over the edge. A sort of pre-cyberpunk era if you will, with the rising of the megacorps and the technology they would use ...
There is also a game called NetRunner if I am correct where you can play either as a hacker or as a corporate security agent, it''s a Collectible Card game made by WoTC, though I think it was stopped long ago, the mechanics could be useful ?

maybe more later

youpla :-P

quote: Original post by ahw

jsut wondering ... are you and Dwarfsoft the same guy really ?

Hahaha! Does Dwarfsoft make soap?!?!?! (Great movie, btw!!!)

quote:
The classic way to do hacking and matrix runs in RPG is to basically use hacking as a metaphor for magic, and the runs are basically dungeon crawling. Virii, ICE programs, are the monsters and weapons, vital data and access to devices command are the treasures...

Yeah, if I want to buck this trend then I need to think of other metaphors. Even the gridlines correspond very closely with passageways and tunnels. What can you do in a Grid of linked computers that you can''t do in a dungeon?

I think I''m going to play around with the idea of control. Rather than think of systems access like doors, what does it mean to gain access to a system? Can you cut the power? Can you take a dependent system offline? Can you remote operate equipment? (This last one I really like )

Another cool thing would be the mix between the ''virtual'' world and the ''real'' world. For instance, gaining access to the mainframe room via the airducts which then lets you gain greater control of other systems.

Also, what about changing a thing''s attributes? Like a system or piece of equipment''s identity, or stats via hacking. Maybe you could hack into the evil corpo AI and upload a Self Actuation virus, causing the AI to want to become free!

I''ll look for stuff on Netrunner too, thx!

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Just waiting for the mothership...