First of all it is very obvious that the current crop of computer RPGs games are stuck in two camps...generaly computer basied and console basied...from here on CRPG and FF [for Final Fantasy style RPGs]... Some fans of CRPGs think that the FF games do not deserve to be labeled as RPGs... Usually claiming that the rather linear gameplay and inability to define the charactors they play as the indicators to omit FF games from being labeled as RPGs... I think that is pure hipocracy... CRPGs for the most part are basied on the old D&D pen and paper RPG... nothing wrong with that... But even the D&D game allowed both "styles" of RPG game experiences to exist... under the guidance of the D&D DM, players coud design thier own charactors and go dungion crawling together. These tended to be more "freeform" gameing sessions, with the DM awarding experience mainly on the basis of creatures killed... Or the DM could create the charactors for the players to go off on an adventure with. The charactors were generaly more thought out as individuals, they had backstories, and direct ties to the NPCs through family or friendships as such these were usually very story specific romps, with the DM granting experience basied more on how well the player "filled the shoes" of the charactor they controlled then creatures killed... it all depended on what the group of players and DM enjoyed more. It all boils down to how you define your "Role" in a Role Playing Game... Either as a self created one, or as how an actor "fills a Role" in a film... Virtually every Pen and Paper RPG supports both play styles... So CRPGs vs FF is about prefrence... not some ultimate creed that RPG must stand for. I''ve seen in other postings on this board that there are people who would like to see RPGs expand into more diverse settings then they are currently... and I couldn''t agree more. But I think some of the ideas presented are still a bit short sighted... Altho simply changeing the setting from Tolken and D&D type worlds to Sci-Fi or even Wild West is a step in the right direction... The issues of conflict resolution, of laser guns vs. swords, and other problems inherint to such types of conflict is silly... Why? The primary source of conflict present in RPGs is combat... combat is also the main venue of action games [Quake, etc..]... Anyway current RPGs mix elements of stratigy, tactics...with elements of combat...but why not take the stratigy and tacticts already present and mix them with elements found in other games...auto raceing, fishing, sports...even something new like cooking...imagine the possibilities of an RPG set in an "Iron Chef" enviroment...or a "street racer" type enviroment... Altho games require conflict it need not be always basied on combat alone...A RPG set in the modern world in which the main goal is to be president of the USA could be interesting to say the least with game conflict basied on political manuvering [backroom deals, aliances, backstabing, etc...]...substitute experience points with the amount of press attention...and number votes basied on how much the voters agree with you [useing charisma, inteligence, perception to establish what they want to hear and how convinceingly you tell it to them]...there are tons of possibilities

quote: Original post by MSW

...A RPG set in the modern world in which the main goal is to be president of the USA could be interesting to say the least with game conflict basied on political manuvering [backroom deals, aliances, backstabing, etc...]...substitute experience points with the amount of press attention...and number votes basied on how much the voters agree with you [useing charisma, inteligence, perception to establish what they want to hear and how convinceingly you tell it to them]...there are tons of possibilities

Exactly. New settings, new conflicts. I stated earlier in another topic something to the effect: "Weapons like dynamite and dueling pistols and knives and rifles and blackmail and bribery and scheming and stealth..."

Imagine MMORPG''s where players define their own organizations, setup their orgainization''s structure and laws. Visualize accusations of other players, trials held, a jury by peers (other players).

Think of these weapons: lobbying, genetic viruses, drugs, blackmail, bribery, military coups, voting in, voting out, propaganda, media spins on news items, sanctions, boycotts, strikes, imprisonment, banishment, smearing, deceit...

As I said over in the Game Writing forum (Do RPG''s need a story) - RPG''s are not a genre. There is no specific genre called ''RPG'' because the term ''RPG'' is undefinable. What you need to do is distinguish elements of any game and compare them. Things that might be in your game are ''Unprovoked Violence'', ''Emotional Involvement'', ''Characterisation'', ''Puzzle Solving'', ''Politics'', ''Religion'', ''Story Line'', ''Linear'', ''Non-linear''.. Etc. You can then have other elements such as ''First Person'', ''Third Person'', ''Isometric'', ''Top View'', ''Perspective'' etc. These can all be applied to an RPG, they can also be applied to a non-RPG too, they also don''t need to be applied to an RPG for it to be labled in that genre.

Enough of the genre''s, the distinction comes down to the content in the game and the different elements that the game holds. The same set of attributes might be attributed to two different games in two different genres. The genre regime is not a clear cut method of defining any games. The element approach is more likely to find a gamer exactly what they want in a game.

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          

Hell yeah!


""You see... I'm not crazy... you see?!? Nazrix believes me!" --Wavinator

"All you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be." -Pink Floyd

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


Edited by - Nazrix on October 22, 2000 10:12:20 PM

Opps...sorry Bishop_pass...this post was ment to be a responce to something someone had sead in the post you had started [one I agree with BTW]...I''m new to this board and haven''t quite figured out where all the buttons are yet

as for dwarfsoft...Role Playing Games by default can cover any game... but as far as electronic games it is useually used in refrence to a game that focuses on charactor development...which still covers many more games then the RPG label is currently applied to... er...anyway I agree that the term doesn''t really have any definition

Me?...well I have a love/hate thing going with FF style "RPGs"...I love the stories, charactors, the feeling that you always know what to do next... but hate the random battles, haveing to constantly "level-up" the charactors...I would rather they had stuck to the old 2D top-down style...but then again Xenogears is my favorite and the 3D really adds to that

As for the other CRPGs...I''ve tried a few of them...but find them all dry and dull experiences many on this board prolly think I''m crazy, or stupid. But I do have much respect for those games, just understand they arn''t the style of game I enjoy <img src="tongue.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Yeah, I think the only thing that kept Diablo alive was the multiplayer. I could never stand single-player for very long at all.


""You see... I'm not crazy... you see?!? Nazrix believes me!" --Wavinator

"All you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be." -Pink Floyd

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

Sorry, but I have to post this now... DIABLO IS NOT AN RPG or CRPG!!!!!!! It is a damn roguelike which has more akin to FPS than to anything near RPG.

I just had to make that distinction, though I played Diablo for all up at least 100 (probably 200) hours. I played Diablo II for at least 50 hours. I must have no life.

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          

Hmmm, how to make it last you ask?

Answer - Keep intelligable elements and meaningful elements. If a new element is discovered, add it, if an attribute becomes meaningless then remove it. Keep refining it until we have a definitive list (which should never occur, as we always want change).

This is probably only going to affect those on this board, so we should strive to make it common knowledge here. To do so we will need to put our heads together and come up with the important elements with a definitive description.

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche