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What people really mean by the word "realistic"
Author
I just felt that this should be voiced. I believe when people use the word realistic in games, they don''t mean that the game will model reality. I think that they mean that when you are looking for a way to handle a situation in a game it just makes sense to look how reality deals w/ it.
Everything is realitve to reality. Something is only unrealistic when it is compared to reality. I just felt that I needed to say this for a while now.
"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
Click here to see my current project.
Interesting connection
.
I mean that all of us when we try to model a game in 3d and film we are trying to push the limits of what we can achieve in realisme. So what then is unrealistic? Everything that is not realistic. So what then is realistic? Everything that tries to resemble reality as close as possible. But is it realistic? Not really. We are just pushing the reality. But even that is a game that we can never win with current technology, e.g. we need to be able to affect the neuro-transmitter in our brain.
We just call it realistic until we have achieved it, just as we call non-linear games, non-linear until we have achieved it. That was the connection I needed.
Coming from an art background, I understand pictures very well and you just had the most fantastic post.8:
Thanx Nazrix You are brilliant.
Ben
.I mean that all of us when we try to model a game in 3d and film we are trying to push the limits of what we can achieve in realisme. So what then is unrealistic? Everything that is not realistic. So what then is realistic? Everything that tries to resemble reality as close as possible. But is it realistic? Not really. We are just pushing the reality. But even that is a game that we can never win with current technology, e.g. we need to be able to affect the neuro-transmitter in our brain.
We just call it realistic until we have achieved it, just as we call non-linear games, non-linear until we have achieved it. That was the connection I needed.
Coming from an art background, I understand pictures very well and you just had the most fantastic post.8:
Thanx Nazrix
You are brilliant. Ben
Author
Yeah, as far as I am concerned reality is basically relative.
It''s just that when we speak of games being more realistic, people automatically tend to think that we want actual calculations and everything to behave just like reality when I think by realitic we mean that it helps to look to real life for answers then go from there and possibly make something alternative to reality.
Thanks Gocontact I''ve never been called brilliant before
"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
Click here to see my current project.
It''s just that when we speak of games being more realistic, people automatically tend to think that we want actual calculations and everything to behave just like reality when I think by realitic we mean that it helps to look to real life for answers then go from there and possibly make something alternative to reality.
Thanks Gocontact I''ve never been called brilliant before
"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
Click here to see my current project.
If something responds like reality THEN IT IS MODELING REALITY. That is how models are made. You look at what happens, then you put a plan behind that that will lead to the same results.
Of course everything is relative to reality when you are making a game to be real (is some or all ways). Also, we live in a real world, something unreal immediately raises a red flag in our head. We are constantly comparing our observations against reality. This means that if something is unrealistic when compared against reality, then everything is unrealistic EXCEPT reality.
It only helps to look toward real life for answers if the problem is remotely realistic. There have been many a time when I couldn't get through a door in a game. Looking toward reality I would just think "break the window next to it and go", however, in most games that doesn't work, and in certain games you end up making some Rube Goldberg contraption just to open the door.
The thing is games haven't reached full realism yet, and not all try to go for realism. In fact, some go in the opposite direction. Most, only go for realism in certain parts and not in others. As one game designer said, too much immersiveness gets annoying, so some parts of the game are made unrealistic (less realistic) to avoid that.
Finally, perfect realism is the point when the player doesn't even know it's a game. As of yet, that's impossible with current technology as Gocontact said.
Of course, don't let physical limits limit us.
"It is one thing to use poorly coded programs. It is another to produce poorly coded programs" -- Me, as far as I know.
Edited by - ddarius on November 25, 2000 3:07:06 PM
Of course everything is relative to reality when you are making a game to be real (is some or all ways). Also, we live in a real world, something unreal immediately raises a red flag in our head. We are constantly comparing our observations against reality. This means that if something is unrealistic when compared against reality, then everything is unrealistic EXCEPT reality.
It only helps to look toward real life for answers if the problem is remotely realistic. There have been many a time when I couldn't get through a door in a game. Looking toward reality I would just think "break the window next to it and go", however, in most games that doesn't work, and in certain games you end up making some Rube Goldberg contraption just to open the door.
The thing is games haven't reached full realism yet, and not all try to go for realism. In fact, some go in the opposite direction. Most, only go for realism in certain parts and not in others. As one game designer said, too much immersiveness gets annoying, so some parts of the game are made unrealistic (less realistic) to avoid that.
Finally, perfect realism is the point when the player doesn't even know it's a game. As of yet, that's impossible with current technology as Gocontact said.
Of course, don't let physical limits limit us.
"It is one thing to use poorly coded programs. It is another to produce poorly coded programs" -- Me, as far as I know.
Edited by - ddarius on November 25, 2000 3:07:06 PM
A stupid one-liner, but one that might have some bearing:
They call it realistic because they can''t call it real.
-Mezz
They call it realistic because they can''t call it real.
-Mezz
Author
okay, I realize I did use the word model reality. I guess that came out wrong. I more just meant that from the standpoint as designers, when we speak of making a game more realistic it just means we''re trying to use reality to solve problems even if it does not behave exactly like reality.
"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
Click here to see my current project.
"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
Click here to see my current project.
quote: Original post by ddarius
Finally, perfect realism is the point when the player doesn''t even know it''s a game. As of yet, that''s impossible with current technology as Gocontact said.
Unless of course, the technology is available, but not within the game. There is no spoon.
I don''t want realism in games, although I agree with Naz more often than not. I just want good suspension of disbelief, which has NOTHING to do with realism. And lord knows games need that.
Author
yeah, I want suspension of belief too.
I just felt the need to make the point that when we speak of looking to reality for inspiration it does not mean that we are using complex physics calculations, it just means that we are looking for something concrete to inspire decisions about design.
It's just that when we use the word "realistic" often people feel that we are suggesting a perfect representation of reality (that thread I had about "realistic swordfighting" was a good example...many assumed that I wanted to simulate real swordfighting exactly which was not my intent) which is not always a good thing and it's not really possible anyway.
LF, this also goes back to your thread about research. It doesn't hurt to look to reality for ideas & inspiration even if you don't make a perfect realistic representation.
I never thought I'd hear LF say that (j/k)
"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
Click here to see my current project.
Edited by - Nazrix on November 25, 2000 4:35:23 PM
I just felt the need to make the point that when we speak of looking to reality for inspiration it does not mean that we are using complex physics calculations, it just means that we are looking for something concrete to inspire decisions about design.
It's just that when we use the word "realistic" often people feel that we are suggesting a perfect representation of reality (that thread I had about "realistic swordfighting" was a good example...many assumed that I wanted to simulate real swordfighting exactly which was not my intent) which is not always a good thing and it's not really possible anyway.
LF, this also goes back to your thread about research. It doesn't hurt to look to reality for ideas & inspiration even if you don't make a perfect realistic representation.
quote: by LF
although I agree with Naz
I never thought I'd hear LF say that (j/k)
"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
Click here to see my current project.
Edited by - Nazrix on November 25, 2000 4:35:23 PM
Realism in games is for the players benefit. If it is a model on physical reality then the player will be able to accept it more... If it is not, then the player won''t. That is the simple way that I see it. Doesn''t mean that the whole game is ''real'' though does it..
PS. Naz - I think LF is a changed man... Agreeing with you and calling me Wise
-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers'' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
PS. Naz - I think LF is a changed man... Agreeing with you and calling me Wise
-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers'' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
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