While somewhat related to the closed thread, it isn't. This is probably the last thing I'll say about this, but I think it has to be said as I do believe a lot of people will agree with me... For those of you who remember, someone petitioned for a time extension a few months ago. Me and a few others supported the idea and pushed for it. However there were a few rotten apples who thought it would be cute to make the contest harder on themselves so they went ahead and pushed for that...and the reason for that is still far beyond me. Were they moderators? Nope. Were they staff? Nope. They were contestants of ALL people. I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF SHOOTING YOUR OWN FOOT. >_< Don't believe me? Here's an example Now many of my own friends and many of you are suffering the consequences of the strict deadline. While this is the responsibility of the developer to produce a game on time, it would have been still nice to see the possibility of a time extension. Most projects go over budget and some projects don't have contingency planning. Mine as some of you know lacked a contingency plan so we had to pull out. Now with the prospect of 78+ contestants, you'll never see the possibility of an extension just for the fact that eliminating entries is vital to judging this contest. So basically you can thank everyone who opposed the idea of an extension for the stress you're under right now. And for those of you who thought it would be cute to have a strict deadline, I hope you suffer. Thats all I have to say. Thanks. I'm done <soapbox/> Edit again: So I guess I didn't make my point clear enough. This isn't about the deadlines... My disgust and bitterness is held deep within the fact that the time extension thread was created by someone who was first to say that the extension is a bad idea THEN he goes back on that statement and asks for an extension. THAT is what I find to be the most frustrating and finiky crap ever. If I were a publisher I would definitely take opinion of the thread as a sign of flaky behavior. And about the deadlines and my project. Fallen Elements did not come through, but it wasn't because of the deadlines. It was actually doing pretty well, but there were no contingency plans. We missed a week of development and then missed a milestone. If we continued we would end up releasing a cut up or buggy product. In this case we decided it would be more beneficial to pull out of the contest and provide a much more solid game later on. We were going to give the prize away anyway so its not like we were in it for the profitability. [Edited by - nes8bit on October 25, 2005 8:47:21 AM]

Quote:
They were contestants of ALL people. I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF SHOOTING YOUR OWN FOOT. >_<

They are not only shooting their own foot, they are also forcing everyone else to shoot their foot which might be and advantage to them since they know they can finish in time and still have a well polished game, but you can't. All the people who have planned to finish at deadline might not have much to do while everyone which couldn't have finished on time might have lots to do. And all the people planning to finish before deadline to have time to polish the game might not be able to do much more polishing and it is to late to change the core of the game so all they can do is add more content, and polish more.

When a deadline is set for a competition I don't think it should be changed, unless 1) The competition hasn't begun yet, or 2) There is another very good reason (one entry making it before the deadline for example).

That said, I ain't participating in the competition, so this ain't just an attempt to keep the current deadline. Also as you said yourself they probably won't change the deadline now.

Hmmm,

What CTar said.

While I can understand that there are probably a bunch of games that won't get finished, and some that won't get polished, the deadline was well set out before the competition began - and, well, the concept of having a strict deadline ensures that you have good time management, and know what you can cut if you're not going to make it.

That said, I am in the same boat as CTar, not in the competition, but I'd hope that most of the contestants who don't have their polish ready for the actual judging have enough love for their projects that they finish them off afterwards for people to see what they are capable of.

--CJM

What CTar and CJM said [smile].

I have to admit first up that I'm also not in the competition. But I've been loosely following the entries (and impressed with what I'm seeing from everyone).

However this is a competition for some pretty good prizes. There was a well defined deadline months in advance. If you were to grant an extension, that would be disadvantaging the people who planned for the present finish date. Just because the software industry is rife with bad management is no reason to encourage it.

And yes, I know that it might be painful for those of you working hard to meet the present deadline; I've been in that situation heaps of times myself (time management is not my forte). But that's no reason to change the rules of the competition. Chalk it up to a learning experience and you'll manage your time better on your next project. And if you can't finish the project on time, at least submit what you've done, then you can finish the project off at your leisure (I'm looking forward to seeing them get released!)

I personally argued against the idea of a time extension, and even though I had 'buffer time' planned I've been forced out of the contest as a result.

I for one still think it was best that the deadline not be extended.

Quote:
And for those of you who thought it would be cute to have a strict deadline, I hope you suffer. Thats all I have to say.

It's not 'cute', it's working within the rules of the contest. The same rules everyone who attempted to enter (or considered it) had layed out for them. As you yourself pointed out, 78+ people managed to get something done in time; this quite clearly demonstrates that the alloted time (I say again, the time given to everyone) was clearly sufficient for those that planned for it and either had nothing go wrong or were able to deal with any problems that arose.

Thanks for wishing suffering on me because you weren't able to plan appropriately though, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.


Oh, and for any wondering, Trapper Zoid quite concisely stated the reason people were against it:

Quote:
There was a well defined deadline months in advance. If you were to grant an extension, that would be disadvantaging the people who planned for the present finish date.

Oh, and I'm moving your whining back to the contest forum, it was in fact more appropriate there.

If your coding skills are aided by time management skills then a strict limit benefits you, or at least hurts you less than the others.

We can't expect an extension to be even considered unless a substantial proportion of us ask for it. They won't give a week extra for one person to catch up when everyone else has finsihed and can't gain by it.

Just think of GD as a strict publisher - you don't make the deadline, you don't get paid.

EDIT: and stop whinging!

PS: I notice your suspension is lifted - what was it for?

Quote: Original post by d000hg
If your coding skills are aided by time management skills then a strict limit benefits you, or at least hurts you less than the others.

We can't expect an extension to be even considered unless a substantial proportion of us ask for it. They won't give a week extra for one person to catch up when everyone else has finsihed and can't gain by it.

Just think of GD as a strict publisher - you don't make the deadline, you don't get paid.

EDIT: and stop whinging!

PS: I notice your suspension is lifted - what was it for?

Exactly, as I said before when this issue came up long ago. The whole contest is about game development as it would be for a real publisher. That means TIME MANAGEMENT is a major part of the project. If you cannot plan, design, develop and finish a game on a tight schedule than take what you have learned from the experience and use it for your next project!

Yes we are all feeling the time crunch and are stressed, tired and grumpy but the deadline was set from the beginning and planning a game for the time and resources available was the whole point. Besides, the contest has to end sometime so we can move on to other projects.

If you want a longer development period for the project then the best idea is tell the Gamedev staff to make the next contest 6 months or something.

I hate to pee in anyones kool aid, but one of the greater challenges for this contest was simply getting it done on time. Our team had a weekly schedule w/ milestones from day 1, and did whatever it took to make those goals each week. This meant Jon(Selsesstissan) and his fiance(Klora Jardi) staying up working until 1 in the morning many nights(we all have full time jobs), and us spending many weekends working on the game for 12 hours a day straight. I'm really proud of their determination and what we've accomplished. I personally don't care about an extension, but I'd feel bad for the rest of my team who have sacrificed ALOT to get this thing done.

The main reason we entered this competition was because it forced us into a rigid deadline(something we desperately needed), and taught us how to manage scope and feature creep, as well as time and manpower resources. It actually worked out far beyond what I expected. We learned a TON about getting things done, and how to get them done.

Jon(Selsesstissan) and I talked about the possibility of an extension just last week, and decided our lives have suffered enough for this crazy thing, and that'd be probably be best just to end it.

That being said... I must quote the prophecy of NES...

Quote: Original post by nes8bit (8/3/2005 7:21:52 PM)
And when everyone needs time extensions, I'm going to "WTF" and "I told you so" all over the place.

http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=336243

Is this one of those famous examples of "failing to take responsibility for your own actions"? I note that you state that "many of my own friends and many of you are suffering the consequences of the strict deadline." Do you not mean: "many of my own friends and many of you are suffering the consequences of poor time management"?

Let's say you have a timed endurance race, how far can you get in 4 hours? Let's say most of the competitors plan their run so that after 4 hours, they are truly exhausted, and cannot run any further. If, some competitors plod along, conserving their energy, and partway through the race, ask for an extra hour, it is very likely that they will overtake the competitor who had exhausted himself in 4 hours.

Anyway, think of it like this - you have just been granted a 12 month extension.

ugh

edited - read original post

Quote: Original post by jakem3s90
That being said... I must quote the prophecy of NES...

Quote: Original post by nes8bit (8/3/2005 7:21:52 PM)
And when everyone needs time extensions, I'm going to "WTF" and "I told you so" all over the place.

http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=336243

Lol. ^_-