If it adds to the ambience of the game and the setting then some swearing should not be a problem. It could even be offset by a chance meeting with say another individual whose response could be things like : good golly that was a smidget close for comfort, while the main protagonist just cursed about almost being blown away.. Or say a reprimand from a higher-up about him swearing then that same higher-up doing it due to something happening..

(If mixed in certain ways it amplifies the main setting and can be toned down by comic-esque relief and pointed at.. hence one does not create a super rambo, but a more nitty gritty character who is a tad more rough it seems then most other ppl he meets and live through the same ordeal..)

Good point Santarr. Little points of irony like that, in my mind, would greatly enhance the story.

Try this:

Write a script that has as much swearing as you feel necessary to make it real. Then rewrite it, taking out as much of the swearing as you can. That's a realistic level of swearing.

I think the idea for a clean dialogue is an option but does that have a bearing on the rating (if their is an option for no swearing) otherwise no point in putting a clean option in as it's still going to rate as Mature.

I think a war game needs some swearing.

Your mate gets shot in the head your not going to scream at the enemy "You really nasty men, wait till I get you"

Although for humour value...that might work :P

Quote: Original post by drackill
I think a war game needs some swearing.

Your mate gets shot in the head your not going to scream at the enemy "You really nasty men, wait till I get you"

I always love it when people give that example.

<sarcasm>Of course he's going to swear! He'll see his dead mate, turn to the enemy and scream 'Oh my God! You killed Lenny! You bastards!'</sarcasm>

More likely he stand there stunned, let out a huge scream, cry, try and save his life (okay so he's dead already, but seeing a mate get shot in the head'll do some funny things to a guy) or any of these other emotional non-swearing responses. It's unlikely he'd actually say anything coherent at all, with the shock of seeing his mate's brains spraying about. He *might* insult them later... 'Those bastards killed my best friend' ...but not right after it.

The main point I was driving at is that without a social reference point within the game shown and/or offset by npc's the main character will look a bit out of place almost comically and that detracts from the immersion.

small scenario :
- player runs forward and jumps into a trench, bullets wizzing past him, he lets out a curse.
- a friendly colonel inside the trench reprimands him for doing so and begins rousing his men to assault forward.

Examples : "Dear me, heavens was that necessairy ?" < radio chatter > "sir a new order we're to take the enemy position" "oh well duty calls, perhaps till later and then we'll have a chat about that cussing of yours"
<colonel rouses troops and rushes forward, leaving the player stunned behind, player watches and starts mumbling in him/herself "bloody idiots they'll get themselves killed that way.. hmm.. wait a second.. perhaps they'll make it.. just a bit more.." <large bomb hits the group leaving a smoking crater and forcing the player to duck his head back into the trench> "well I guess that friendly chat with milk and cookies is out, better find a way around that minefield"

And I agree shock might make people do strange things, but when it's just some other bloke you just met 2 seconds ago you might swear at the enemy for doing it.

Getting a mate killed story wise is only done at a crucial time to spur the player on and/or change the plot. Sometimes it's not the player's mate that dies but one of the npc's mates and that npc rushes forward while the player character yells something about ducking down. (First is a more intense version, but harder to get right seeing the player will need time to spend with that npc mate to develop a certain liking, else it won't work. The second version is powerfull enough but a bit more detached, meeting the pair a few times and seeing them work well is enough to understand the feeling)

Main idea is to both convey a storyline and create a believable immersion for the player, the storyline spurs the player on to do things and helps the immersion factor.

Another thing one can also do is add hints and tips how to play inside the game, not textual but with game mechanics for example :
<player is about to rush into a house, suddenly a grenade wizzes past his head and he ducks behind the doorpost just in time> He curses the friendly npc for throwing the grenade, the grenade goes off and a enemy npc falls into the doorway and the friendly npc responds : sorry sir, but standard city fighting doctrine for door to door fighting, first a grenade then rush in.
Here are some grenades I have spare.

The player learns a lesson and it adds to the atmosphere that city fights are vicious and to expect ambushes.

Just one more example :
(If the player character or a npc curses it should be because the enemy or environment in game does something to make life harder then it allready is to complete the mission (cussing just randomly seems silly, but in a heavy rainstorm or when a certain easy access bridge is blown it is viable.. ))

Say level : Cumbaja ?
player is sitting inside a friendly camp after the previous mission, he/she lifts his/her beer, a shot rangs out.. the beer bottle is smashed and a npc sitting next to the player is shot down, player curses about losing his beer.
Player kneels next to the wounded npc and calls out : "don't worry I will avenge you" the npc responds "it's only a fleshwound" a second shot rangs out and kills the npc, the player responds "I was not talking about you but about them messing up my beer, time for some fun"

[Edited by - Santarr on March 13, 2006 1:41:27 PM]

They seem real enough to me. The first scenario seems a little weird, not too sure why, but the other two examples seem pretty cool. I know I'd be annoyed if an ally threw a grenade at me, and the third one's a nice bit of tragic comedy!

I'd have to recommend some over-the-top Full Metal Jacket style insult for the second scenario, but maybe just a Dammit! for the third. I think for the first one he should kinda report something about the enemy to the colonel, say "There raining a whole load of shit upon us sir!"

But hell, it's your project!

Swearing affects the tone of what is said, but not the content. Thus it is realistic to have someone swear where that character would in real life, but you should also be careful to make sure that the swearing isn't just a filler for actual dialogue.

As for two settings, I think it's a great idea. As one who has often suffered from having parents who either follow the ratings or are still more restrictive, I think it would be a good idea to have a game have both a teen and mature mode. Something in the ratings box should mention this so that parents can agree to let their kid buy a game if he'll only play it on teen setting. Given that the trend is to rely on technoloical means instead of trust and respect, game companies would likely implement something where the parents can enter a password to lock it in teen mode or something like that.

Quote: Original post by TheOddMan

Quote: Original post by drackill
I think a war game needs some swearing.

Your mate gets shot in the head your not going to scream at the enemy "You really nasty men, wait till I get you"

I always love it when people give that example.

<sarcasm>Of course he's going to swear! He'll see his dead mate, turn to the enemy and scream 'Oh my God! You killed Lenny! You bastards!'</sarcasm>

More likely he stand there stunned, let out a huge scream, cry, try and save his life (okay so he's dead already, but seeing a mate get shot in the head'll do some funny things to a guy) or any of these other emotional non-swearing responses. It's unlikely he'd actually say anything coherent at all, with the shock of seeing his mate's brains spraying about. He *might* insult them later... 'Those bastards killed my best friend' ...but not right after it.

Good point, although I’m sure I’ve seen films where the hero's mate gets shot which sends him into a suicidal rage screams "YOU FUCKERS!!" then repeatedly stabs the enemy with his baronet once he's some how managed to avoid all the bullets coming his way and run half a mile to the precise person who shot his friend. That in its self is unrealistic but hay its not real life :)

but I know what you mean.

The main thing one has to keep in mind is that a player will want to play the game and to be immersed in and entertained by it. Think of a good action movie, but now the player is the main character. It kind of helps to get into the mindset of the main character perhaps even try out your main characters dialogues in front of a mirror to get a feel if they fit and are not too over the top or out of place.

It really depends on the setting and how the feel of the game is, imagine for example fear with swearing (possible but not needed tho the main character might have said more) (It would also deduct at certain times from the suspense buildup if done at the wrong moment, but at the right moment might have given the character more of a personality (yet different, from a good highly trained soldier with a twist to a toughened old style veteran akin to seen in movies)) and say serious sam doing it (not needed and if too heavy it would break the immersion, sarcasm and corny remarks fit better with the lighthearted approach of that game)
Tho with soldier of fortune it would fit better, but again not for the main character seeing he is a professional and so used to adversity (except if it goes to extremes he might let out one) one mostly sees it in a enrolled character, someone not fully wanting to be there but being good at what he/she does none the less and experienced.