How about making the tech tree (areas) so big that you can´t research them all?

in conjunction with some of the ideas already mentioned this would be a pretty cool system....

cause then you´d have to decide on what areas you focus on and what areas to neglect.. so for instance you´re top at laser technology but suck at bioengineering...

a system like that (research areas, ....) would give the player a lot of freedom, but would be hell to balance out (so that you don´t end up a dead end, or find out after 5 hours that you´ve researched the wrong stuff).

and in the case of smth XCOM-like you´d need item-based research (i liked that a lot), researching dead aliens, alien weapons....
so maybe you could have that seperated from the main area research ....
then you could give different results for different areas.. so if you have biotech level 2 you get a general overview of the critter, but if you have biotech 8 you get a detailed list of strenght and weaknesses, and with bt 12 you can even create a special virus or venom to kill this creature...
same with weapons...
depending on your tech level you get varying information,
only if all the requirements are fulfilled you can recreate that weapon

ex: you find and ultra-cool alien plasma blaster
you get information based on your tech: if you have none of the requirements you know only that it´s a thingy and can´t even tell it´s business end from the other
next level would be some general information, maybe first attempts at recreating the technology
then you might actually start to build your own thingies, crude and inefficent at first, getting better and better with advancing knowledge
and then you have understood it all and have access to adjacent fields of research (ie. create a better armor to protect you guys from plasma weapons, create a tank-mounted variant....)

finding a certain item should also give u bonusses in certain fields (it´s easier to research something if you know that it must work, and have a working example)

How about just setting it so it takes longer to research it if you don''t have the required techs? To take that blaster as an example - When you first start researching you know it''s a thingee, but about halfway through the research you figure out how to use it, and at full research you can build them yourself.

That was one thing I always found annoying about XCOM, I could sit there with a disrupter at 96% all through a mission and no-one knew how to use the darn thing (mutter, mutter, grumble)

Faradhi Sobriet-Treves
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A tech system i always wanted to make for an x-com game involved something similar to Master of orions modular ship building and tech research + Diablos unique item creation system and X-coms tech tree.

Basically you have say 7 areas of research :

-Projectile weapons
-Energy weapons
-Enegry sources
-Computers
-Vehicles
-Armor

And the player distributes research points to each using MOOs slider bar approach, and there will be a light bulb on the side indicating how close they are to making a breakthrough in that area. Like in MOO each area has a specific item researchable out of say a selection of 2-3 per level (MOO has about 20 levels/area and 2-3 items per level, though sometimes the items were simple improvements like industrial tech level 7 etc..)

Also like MOO not all possible items will appear, its random. Sometimes you skip a level, items are left out etc.. So its different each time you play.

Well here is where Diablos unique item creation comes in. Say you assign specific scientists to research those weapons, and those scientist have specailities. For instance say one has "an aquatic research specialality". So you put him in research advance chain mail armor. So once he makes a break through you have a small chance of the scientist on the project to modify the discovery with their unique attributes. For instance say in this case this scientist adds a -aquatic mobility bonus and -aquatic capabale bonus. So now you have a unique armor which may never appear in anyone elses game, a totally unqiuely discovered item, with unique attributes. You can influence this with the number / quality of scientist you put on a project. Other mods im thinking could be + resistance to acid damage, + 50% bonus to attrbiutes, -25% weight, etc.. It''s pretty generic, but throw in the randommness and you can see it can be quite fun to create a really cool unqiue item, it might give you the edge in a close combat.

As for the modular system MOO has, its similar to what X-com has too, in that you can outfit your mens arms and armor anyway you want.

Good Luck

-ddn

First off - never sit beside the connections to the LAN for your group of computers... Those darn cords are to tempting to fiddle with (Hehehe, that''s one pissed off tech...)

Anyways...

This research system wotsisname came up with seems inspired. My only question is: Would it cost more to build these upgraded items, or just keep the same cost?

Faradhi Sobriet-Treves
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Yes im thinking it would cost more to create these modified items, rather than the base type item. How much more? that''s really a game play balance issue. Also modifiers can have both negative and positive attributes. Such as + 50% armor rating but also + 25% weight. Use the diablos variable percentage stats mechanism, so it doesnt have to be 50% it can be 13% etc.. Also in multiplayer mode, it would be possible to sell these items, thus cornering the markert on fabalous angelic chain mail of +76% neon glow. 8^)

Part of the fun is in getting these scientist, and keeping them alive long enough for you to make these items 8^) then ofcouse you''ll need the trolls who will make them.


Good Luck

-ddn

ok, here are my ideas on this topic:

If you don''t want the same tech tree results each game, more of a random style of research so that it is more realistic, why give everything researchable a name? If "techs" are defined as this does this, this is it''s name, once it is researched you know everything there is to know about it, then the game gets a linear, predictable, tech tree. On the same idea, using names (at least common ones) for everything that can be researched sets expectations for the user. In your example, when "chain mail" has been researched, the user expects an armor upgrade and maybe even a speed upgrade on their units. If the new tech remains un-named, or if it is given a name that no one has seen before, they will not have expectations... right away.

If you want to surprise the user in the results of the research that they do, I can think of two possible results:

1 - Don''t name techs. Naming will set their expectations, plus limit the system. Without using names, you can continue to research and improve weapons and armor, etc. since with names, you need to give the computer specific naes and it will sooner or later start re-using names. Also, if the user can''t identify specifically what they have just researched, then they can''t expect completely what the results will be. The user could be told "New armor discovery!" but until it is tested, they wouldn''t completely see the effectiveness of their new discovery against different types of units and their different attacks.

2 - Use name unknown to the user. Ths would allow them to identify the tech eventually (when they get used to the names) but they have nothing before seen to compare it to (in terms of effectiveness). With this system, a tech list would be nice.

In both systems you could randomize the order in which things are discovered. The upgrades would have to improve as the game went on, but in varied forms (ie: armor effectivenss good against different types of attacker.) With the second system I mentioned, you could safely randomize the techs since the names would be unknown to them. If you use knwonw names, then they may question the game if they discover spaceships before swords.

Did this give you any help or ideas?

As a side note - they could have discovered spaceships before swords because...

They had guns, and didn''t realise they needed anything else till they started blowing holes in the sides of their spacecraft in boarding actions.

They have a deep aversion to close combat, which someone finally decided to try to capitalise on.

Alphabetically, spaceships come first.

Sorry bout going off topic, but I just started having ideas and decided to share em

Faradhi Sobriet-Treves
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