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Martial arts fighting model for a CRPG

Started by March 28, 2001 09:26 AM
15 comments, last by Hans 23 years, 5 months ago
This might''ve been suggested here before as I don''t read this forum so often.. Read on anyway! I just recently watched some cool Jet Li, Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan fighting films and immediately thought that this is how fighting should be in CRPGs. In current CRPGs the combats are usually very straightforward and easy and don''t recquire much planning nor tactics. But in martial arts films every piece of environment is utilized: throwing chairs on enemy''s face, jumping from walls, dodging under tables and even pulling a carpet under the enemy''s feet. These moves would be great to see in an action game, but IMO would also work well in turn-based CRPG combat. Environment Very dense and complex environment: pillars, tables, chairs, carpets, pipes in ceiling and lots of normal furniture. You could move most of the objects, throw them, hide behind them etc. While thinking your turn The fighters wouldn''t just stand still as frozen statues. They would have fists covering their heads and "move up & down" (hah that''s the best term I could come up with) as if they were waiting for the other person to make his/her move, just like the fighters would do in real life! They could also automatically try to punch/kick each other if they were close enough, but they would always block/dodge the attack moves so that no damage would be infected. So it all would be just visual ''effects'' to make the combat look more realistic even when the player does nothing. Turn length You could move quite a bit and do one bigger move (like jumpkick) or series of smaller moves (normal punches). The movement wouldn''t be tile/hex-based but totally free. When the turn ends It would really matter what your final position is when your turn ends, so that you could make better counter-attack-moves. You could eg. go behind a corner and if the enemy would try to come directly at you, your character would automatically try to trip up the opponent with his/her feet (assuming you still have some movement-points left from your last turn). Weapons Guns wouldn''t be very appropriate for this fight model, maybe only if they were very sparsely used (like in martial arts films). Although it would be hard to limit their usage if they were available in the game, so I think it would be better to just leave the guns entirely out. Daggers, bows, shurikens, katanas, nunchakus and other typical martial arts weapons would play an important role. Skill development This could be much like in other CRPGs. Fight more and you''ll learn more moves. Your character also becomes faster and stronger (geetz what a surprise ). If you only used the basic moves (basic kick and punch) you wouldn''t gain that much experience. So you should always try to use the special moves to get more experience. Also, depending on what moves you do the most, different body parts would become better: -legs -arms -general (stomach muscles, back muscles, hips etc.). Affects lots in special move performance. Randomness It wouldn''t have as much random as normal CRPG combats. The fighting would be more like playing chess. Any thoughts? I think this would be very fun and I haven''t seen this kinda combat in any CRPG. (I haven''t played Shenmue though, which might have quite similar combats) -Hans [home]
I had a very similar idea a few years back. I was looking for a unique way to model real world martial arts technique. It was more from a programming stand-point but has some correlations to what you are discussing. In any martial art, there are moves designed to flow from one another, both offensive and defensive. By using a tree structure to store those move correlations, you can come up with some very unique combinations and also valuable information to be used by the AI routines. Adding the use of real world objects does make the situation more complex, but not undoable. I think this would be a very interesting project to try and throw together. It''s a lot of work, but if it could be pulled off, could be something very spectacular.
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Yes, I like that quite well. I''m usually not much of a turn-based fan, but that certainly sounds interesting. Most importantly, it emphasizes strategy which is a good thing.


Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
What a plight we who try to make a story-based game have...writers of conventional media have words, we have but binary numbers
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself. "Just don't look at the hole." -- Unspoken_Magi
Hans,

I agree that a lot more can be done with combat systems. As processors get faster it takes a lot of AI to eat up those extra cycles. More interesting fighting like what you describe could definitely be done with today''s processors.

I''ve been thinking along a similar line with some of your thoughts. Especially the "while thinking your turn" section. Many games have a lot of attack animations and few if any defense animations. It would be nice if the computer automatically played defensive animations in reaction to attacks. It already calculates hits so why not give us some visual feedback instead of making us read a terminal or health meter to see what happened.

Interacting with the environment would be tough, but some games are starting to do this in non-combat situations. Using items in combat is the next logical step.

--
Todd
http://www.3dcgi.com/
More interaction is needed, but not only in combat, being able to climb on a crate to reach some tunnel, cut a tree branch to mask the footprints, a length of rope attached between to trees to dismount a troop of horsemen and so on...

I agree that martial arts would be cool, not only for turn based though.
------------------"Between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis and the rise of the sons of Arius there was an age undreamed of..."
quote: Original post by 3dcgi
It would be nice if the computer automatically played defensive animations in reaction to attacks. It already calculates hits so why not give us some visual feedback instead of making us read a terminal or health meter to see what happened.


Quite a lot of RPGs show you the impact of your blows on a character. Nothing really special there.

But from a MA standpoint, decent martial artists don''t trade blows. Fighting is not turn based.

And if you study high level practitioners, you''d find there are very few defensive moves - instead, you merge your opponents attack into one of your own.

If you want to model "movie" fighting on the other hand... then you can do what you like. The only requirement would be that the fights use big fancy moves and look visually impressive. There is no realism in a martial arts films. They are cool though.

E
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Ok, maybe I should''ve made it clear that I don''t look for realism but for cool tricks and moves seen in MA movies .

And I know that interaction could be used more anywhere, but I think that combat is the part that needs most focus at the moment, since CRPG combats are so boring.. And this wouldn''t be an impossible task from programming standpoint. Just need a good physics model and most of the job is done .

-Hans [home]
quote: Original post by Hans
And I know that interaction could be used more anywhere, but I think that combat is the part that needs most focus at the moment, since CRPG combats are so boring..


I''m not sure RPG fans would really want to select from a huge list of MA moves though, but it would certainly be cool to take advantage of the environment more.

A simple inclusion would be to allow players to pick an object near their player as their attacking tool. e.g. a crate. But then use pre-computed animations to fill in the details.

For example:
My character is standing next to a crate. The enemy is standing a medium distance in front. I select to attack with the crate, but the engine knows I couldn''t possibly pick up the crate and throw it so far. Hence, it uses an animation where my character kicks the crate towards the enemy and the opponent leaps over it in panic.

Your game would maybe hold thousands of mini set-pieces so that when the time is right, it can show the animation and give the player that "Jackie Chan" experience.

Just a thought anyway.

E
How about including differnet martial arts in the game:
Tae Kwon do, Jujitsu, capiuara (that brazillian one) etc.

Could be interesting seeing how people fight from different arts against each other.

Dæmin
(Dominik Grabiec)
sdgrab@eisa.net.au
Daemin(Dominik Grabiec)
Tombstone: Vendetta will be allowing Martial Art combat. 16 styles with up to 16 moves each. We''re looking into styles that were around in the late 1800''s. It''s already implemented. We just need to add in the animations. It''s also real time combat.

Ben
http://therabbithole.redback.inficad.com




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