How dare you possibly consider that fantasy is redundant mr King Goblin.. uh.. Sir

But I do agree with you about the emotional content, however - that realm still lies on the other side of the river from where you secured your boat MKV

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - The future of RPGs
Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche

*and Dwarfie takes the bait*

Where exactly do you learn about all those little things in Diablo? Not in-game I tell ya! I played Diablo at university back when it came out. You know, the "not quite so kosher" version that didn''t have any of the movies (I was young and ignorant ).

When you''re playing the actual game, you never EVER feel that involvement. At least I didn''t. But of course, that was a long long time ago and I might have gone senile since then.

My point: if it''s not in-game, don''t bother with it. I don''t care about movies at all. If I want a good movie I''ll go rent a video. Make it in-game, and stop wasting time and effort on the movies. It''s the GAME that has to make people buy your stuff.


People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
Mad Keith the V.

What do you mean no involvement? I slaughtered King Leorics Skeleton good to let him rest in peace

Well... Ok, so it really doesn''t involve you, but at least it was a good introductory to the possibilities of RPGs for newbies like me (at the time)



-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - The future of RPGs
Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche

Well, I disagree with Siegfried much like everyone else. I would just like to say, that being able to use magic and walk around killing monsters isn''t much different than a "hitorically correct" program where you walk around africa and have to hunt wild animals and try not to get eaten alive all while trying to avoid very harmful insects. Well what I''m trying to say is, I can''t relate to either one, so why would the historically correct one appeal to me any more than the other. As for your ww2 idea, I think that''s great that you''re writing it, and you think it''s good and all, but I wasn''t at ww2, nor do I know that much about ww2. I never held any of the guns used in ww2, and I don''t talk/read/write the same as the people from ww2. So if I were given a game about ww2, i''d be completely lost. Now give me a game that you use taser guns, I could relate better due to me playing laser tag (which is fun). I''d rather play a game of laser tag in an unkown area than re-play ww2.

Billy

quote: Original post by MadKeithV

*and Dwarfie takes the bait*

Where exactly do you learn about all those little things in Diablo? Not in-game I tell ya! I played Diablo at university back when it came out. You know, the "not quite so kosher" version that didn''t have any of the movies (I was young and ignorant ).

When you''re playing the actual game, you never EVER feel that involvement. At least I didn''t. But of course, that was a long long time ago and I might have gone senile since then.


My point: if it''s not in-game, don''t bother with it. I don''t care about movies at all. If I want a good movie I''ll go rent a video. Make it in-game, and stop wasting time and effort on the movies. It''s the GAME that has to make people buy your stuff.

Um, wasn''t *most* of the story in Diablo in the form of voice acted scrolling text from the characters in town? That, and the quests??? After all, it was Griswold''s narration of the battle with the Butcher and Farnam''s drunk & teary-eyed tale that told you what happened to the town in the first place, right? Surely that is in game.

I mostly agree with you, though, about not feeling the involvement, but only because of 1/10th of the game involved story / narration. The other 7/10ths was a pest extermination sim, with the remainder a flea market sim.

--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

mmmmmmmmmmm *dwarfsoft stares dreamily into space remembering all the good times playing Diablo*

*sigh*

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - The future of RPGs
Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche

Hehe next time I''ll pick a better example (i.e. one I''ve actually played enough to remember how it goes). If only I had time to play games!

So to turn it to a different game: has anyone here played Ultima 8?


People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
Mad Keith the V.

hehe, sorry, I don''t normally have much to say on topics such as these (I''m of the opinion that you like what you like, and that''s ok with me) but I just had to point out to Anonymous Poster that WW2 ended in 1945. That''s 56 years ago. I imagine people spoke exactly as we do now (maybe they didn''t say "like" as often, like, you know?) Siegfried''s game is set in the 13th century, some 800 years ago. Sounds quite interesting, actually...

quote: Original post by Siegfried
(...) Fantasy RPGs have the fatal flaw that no-one can actually be interrested in the world you have created because they are completely unfamiliar with it, however if a gamer is instantly familiar with the idea of the game then the game must be a cliche! (...)

I recommend you read David Eddings. Start with the Belgariad, then read the Malloreon, then Belgarath The Sorcerer, then Polgara the Sorceress. And then , you read the foreword of The Rivan Codex.

The secret is that when you create a new world, you have to be thorough in the process. Design it so that it all fits together in a way that makes it seem real.

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ls -lR|rm -rf /
(Best compression everywhere. Kids, don''''t try this as root.)

Ultima 8!!!! I thought I was the only "ancient" gamer here. Back then there were no FPS, for God Bless! (not that i don´t enjoy FPS, but the feeling is not the same, and won´t be ever) Just games, and many (actually not that many, but some) started their own genre. These were happy times, when the important point of a game was the FUN, not the technology.

The Ultima Saga! The best RPG games ever, ever! Ultima 7 Serpent Isle was the culmination of story-unfolding, game-involvement, freedom-of-action, deep-ambientation and everything you could possibly desire in a RPG game!! In that game the only matter that was really important was the story you was being part of..., NO, better, THE STORY YOU WAS ACTUALLY -DETERMINING-. There are no such games now. Just take Baldur''s Gate, or Vampire, or any of the new generation RPGs (same for Ultima IX, sigh!), they are just linear, combat driven, ...

Ever played "Dark Heart of Uukrul". I remember playing it with a 8086 PC (yes, you read well 8086!), and has (i play it from time to time) the unique feeling of being part of it, i get scared form time to time, and has crappy graphics, no music at all, some crappy sounds, just the feeling you are getting playing it.

Ohhhh, I miss the old times!!!