Quote: Original post by Kwizatz
I like talkative protagonists, but its an added plus, I really enjoy Carl Johnson's one liners in GTA:SA ("You hit me punk!"), but that doesn't keep me from enjoying GTA III with a silent Claude Speed.

Carl is definitely a LOT more memorable than Claude of course.

I found the comparison between the two interesting because there are some clear trade-offs. One the one hand, the talkable protagonists like C.J. are indeed more memorable.

But on the other, mute Claude had an empty personality that meant it didn't really matter so much he was doing all these crazy anti-social things. Part of my problem with GTA:SA was that C.J. had a good side to him, but some of the missions that C.J. did seemed completely out of character (like the one where he slaughters an entire mansion of guards just to steal a rhyming dictionary). I didn't have that problem with Claude, because he just felt like an empty avatar for the player to use to interact with the game world. (Heck, he was so underdeveloped I didn't even know he was called "Claude" until I'd finished the game).

Good points.

I guess the writing is really what matters. Both silent and non-silent protagonists can be personal and emotive.

I feel that there's still a distinct personal touch to silent protagonists that I haven't felt has been reached by talkative ones. After playing Chrono Trigger, it's really hard to imagine Crono talking. Throughout the game, he has been crafted into a vehicle for you, the player. I view Crono and I as the same person, not directly, but in a point-of-view and emotive sense.

I guess what really is going on is that silent protagonists don't have a personality preset. Well, their views and ideals are pretty much set, but their voice, accent, tone, and all the other subtleties associated with speech is crafted by the sum of the player's imagination and the writing of the game. It's a hybrid that the player is automatically comfortable with, since he subconsciously defined it. With non-silent players, their speech styles are already preset, and that changes a lot of things about how the player views him. If it's a personality that's vastly different from the player's own, the experience may not be as personal.

As a side note, I think it's interesting to note that Chrono Cross used this whole issue in a story/gameplay element. The main character, Serge, is a silent protagonist. However, [spoiler alert!] in the middle of the game, you transfer bodies with the antagonist, and your party does not know. You get to hear (read) your party members talk to your old body (controlled by the antagonist), and he does indeed respond by talking. It is completely disorienting (in a cool way) and shocking to see the protagonist talk, and you know immediately something is wrong (which is that he isn't really him). I thought that was a cool writing idea.

It was kind of like in Schindler's List, where the whole movie is in black and white, and then you see the girl's body on the wheelbarrow, identified by the red dress, which is colored. It really sends a message, not because color is special, but because we are conditioned to expect the art to flow one way but something (normal) contrasts so sharply that we can't ignore it.

[Edited by - Swarmer on April 19, 2008 11:26:19 PM]

One of the better "talky" protagonists for me was John Dalton from Unreal 2. I don't know if it comes down to good writing or if there was anything else involved as well, but most of the time, his responses were the same I would have given - especially his angry one-liners in the "rescue the scientist" mission. ;) ("Are you late for prom or something?!")

The true purpose behind the silent prot. (no I'm not writing the whole fricken word) is to give the feel that YOU are saving the world from the giant bugs, evil rabbits or sinister...snakes. Few SPs show an enormous amount of emotion, and most are stock characters: normal guy turned hero who's quite good at saving people.

SPs are best in RPGs where you have another character(s) around to help the story out. Ever wonder why Navi is in Zelda, other than to annoy you with obvious information? ("Look, that DOOR must open to another PASSAGE!") Navi (or, more prominently, Tatl from Majora's Mask) helps Link do the talking when he can't.

What I really hate is why games with SPs seem to think that because their character doesn't talk, nobody else can get voiceovers. It's silly and bugs me.

The older I get, the more I seem to dislike silent protagonists. It seems to make the characters more flat. I mean, you have all these well made, fleshed-out characters -- and then this boring protagonist.

I stopped playing Dragon Quest 8 because of it. The hero pales in comparison to Yangus or Angelo. He's merely there for you to have something to control. I know that it's supposed to be so that you can project your own thoughts onto the character, but I see it more as a cop-out these days rather than a smart move.

I know I don't speak for everyone else, but I'd prefer to follow a story where all the characters are well written rather than control some blockhead who doesn't speak to anyone. It always make them come across as being stupid, indecisive, or just...uninspiring.

Silent protagonists are usually a duller experience I find. There are so many moment where I want them to say 'NO! That's ridiculous' or actually shout out at a character rather than gasp.

The problem is they are very unrealistic, as I find they just let everything by. 'Hey I left they keys back at the reactor, my feet are abit sore now so you'll have to go get them'. Now to me the reaction should at least be some kind of 'Your kidding, right?', but a silent protagonist it will be a simple go get the keys. It just doesn't make for good characters.

I think people over emphasis how you can be the character when the character is silent. I can relate to some main characters in movies, I can feel them. They don't need to be silent for me to be in their shoes. I think silent protagonists are abit of an excuse to create characters who are less risky to be disliked by the player. At the end of the day its good for both types to be in the world, aswell as hybrids (e.g Mass Effect), but my personal preference would always be not to use silent protagonists in a game with a somewhat decent story.

First of all, I'm a coder too, not a writter.

[My opinion]You can also go the Grim Fandango way and write several options to dialog. The users chooses what he feels most represented with. (Note that in several dialogs Grim Fandango only allowed one or two true answers to continue, but most of the time that was because the other options weren't reasonable to keep going)[/My opinion]

Quote:
The disadvantage is that it is harder to advance the plot with a silent protagonist. The plot ends up being more linear with one, because people have to put words in your mouth. However, good writing can overcome this.

I think good writing can overcome the "you don't feel really immersed in the whole situation" with speaking protagonists too.

You can never satisfy the whole world, but to satisfy most of them, you need to be a good writter. It's up to you if you write better stories with silent-protagonist or not. Choose what you are more comfortable with. If you don't feel your own character, neither will the player.

Cheers
Dark Sylinc

In my opinion I think Mass Effect is a good example of how you don't need SP's and can still feel really immersed in the game. But it's Bioware and they always pull out all the stops.

My favorite series is Shining Force with Suikoden not far behind, so I'm obviously more in favor of SP's for RPGs, but that's not to say there aren't other great ways to portray the player-character...

Interesting topic.

Personally it really varies for me, I love both the talkers and the non-talkers. Games like Oblivion for instance, I never even thought about my character being silent as the game is just so much fun to play, plus the writing really has a chance to stand out.

Then you have games like FF9 or the first Grandia, or my personal favorite Skies of Arcadia where you have a non-silent protagonist and their dialog is just absolutely stunning. It just pushes the story to levels you just can't go with a silent main character.

I agree though, it's all in the writing, either one can make or break a game I guess. I do feel that silent protagonists are becoming a little too overused nowadays though, Sometimes I just really want a good cohesive story without all of this "immersion" stuff and that really seems to be lacking as of late.