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so, what do the artists want?
Author
I look at the ''help wanted'' forum, and day in day out I see posts which look remarkably like:
"Need 2d artist Replies=0"
"Need Texture artist Replies=0"
"Tile artist wanted! Replies=0"
"character artist required Replies=0"
It seems that people never learn.
I''m writing here, simply to find out what it is that makes an artist want to join a dev group. What would be inspirational enough to make you want to work with the team making this RPG or that action game.
Those kinds of posts on Help Wanted, obviously don''t work, and rarely ever catch the eye of those it''s aimed at.
So why such a little amount of replies? Is it because the majority of artists aren''t confident about their work? Or is it because money is a larger issue than with programmers? Perhaps it''s just because restrictions imposed by a team is not what creative skill looks for. Perhaps, and most likely, none of these are the reasons.
So what''s the deal?
I''m interested in what an artist thinks when they see all these "artist wanted" posts on forums. What would make you join/help a team? Care to share your views and opinions?
Dachande
Yes this is a curious question to artists. In the past I have 100% given up on finding reliable artists. It has been my experience that they think they run the show, when it is a team effort. And they do not like constructive criticism, and also seem to have a problem working within the constraints of technical limitiations:
Color restrictions
Sizes in powers of 2 etc...
I am really just ranting here because of my horriable experience with artists.
"Perhaps it''s just because restrictions imposed by a team is not what creative skill looks for"
The whole team should be creative, and programming by the way is very much a art form. (It is just not one that the user sees upfront (unless they look for it) like they see the art.)
I am curious to see artists replies to this...Thanks for the post, it could get interesting.
<>
Shane
Color restrictions
Sizes in powers of 2 etc...
I am really just ranting here because of my horriable experience with artists.
"Perhaps it''s just because restrictions imposed by a team is not what creative skill looks for"
The whole team should be creative, and programming by the way is very much a art form. (It is just not one that the user sees upfront (unless they look for it) like they see the art.)
I am curious to see artists replies to this...Thanks for the post, it could get interesting.
<>
Shane
I think it''s more about creative restriction than anything. It''s not that artist don''t want to draw this and that for a game , I think it''s just that they want to draw it there way without any complaints. As screw as that sounds, I''ve found that to be true weather you are working over the artist or you are the artist. I''ve done both and if I have a particlurar mindset about how I would like something to look, once I hand it over to the artists, they completely destory the invisioned ideas. Ofcourse the pictures are nice, but they are not in line with the perceived goal. Sometimes you have to work with this, other times, you might tell them to re-try and then they get that attitude about them,and start to producte lack luster work. I''m similarly gulity. As an artist, I want to be expressive, and if someone tells me to draw a character and leaves me with a vaguge description, what the hell do they expect. " Draw a hero looking Dude" WTF is that? In this case, I think the designer is the problem.
I''m sure there are many other reasons artist would rather draw their life away then acually produce work, but there are the only two I am really aware of.
Peace
-Sage13
http://www.sage13news.8k.com
I''m sure there are many other reasons artist would rather draw their life away then acually produce work, but there are the only two I am really aware of.
Peace
-Sage13
http://www.sage13news.8k.com
I''m not an artist but I think I may have a possible answer to your question. I don''t think very many "strictly artists" view these forums. What I mean by this is that most of the artists that view these forums are also programmers, and as a result have their own programs they want to work on and their own ideas of what the game should be, so they may not want to work on a project that they don''t think would be as fun as their own ideas.
As for the artists being unreliable/bad teamworkers, most "strictly artists" aren''t likely to understand or care that they are restricted to a certain color depth or image dimensions, and if they do understand and take that into account it is either because they have working experience with graphics for computer programs, or because they have programming experiece and aren''t just an artists.
Of course I could be very wrong, let''s find out. Are there any artists out there that aren''t programmers as well?
Dustin
As for the artists being unreliable/bad teamworkers, most "strictly artists" aren''t likely to understand or care that they are restricted to a certain color depth or image dimensions, and if they do understand and take that into account it is either because they have working experience with graphics for computer programs, or because they have programming experiece and aren''t just an artists.
Of course I could be very wrong, let''s find out. Are there any artists out there that aren''t programmers as well?
Dustin
Geez! Please, someone be sensible!
Put yourself in the artists shoes...heres an example, what if a post stated that...
"Hey! I NEED a 2-D Artists for my new RPG. It''s gonna be cool. I''m the CEO of BlackGothic software and im the only one in the company. I have no previous experience, never programmed in direct x that much, but i want to learn! anyway, i need a professional artist. to do the following
-8 characters
-World map
-Word Art"
Let''s examine what''s wrong...
1) The artists wants to see what you can do. He/She knows that your a programmer, by how good at programming are you? You need to supply information on how to retrieve your work examples.
2) You run your own "company" which really isn''t a true company, cause your 15, live with your parents, and your the only one who is in the "company". 3/4 of the time, this is the case for people who post.
3) Not good enough, or your doing a project that doesn''t intrest them. What''s differnt about your project that seperates it from all the others?
Another Tip: Someone mentioned before that artists were somewhat stubborn or wanted complete control while working in a group. That is simply false. They want to work as a team. The problem is, programmers, especially the one''s that have a "company" are often RUDE, demanding, and act as though they should be respected, while in reality they are the one''s who should be respecting the artists.
Keep that in mind next time all you Fake-CEO''s :-)
Andy Sharkey
Sharkey323@aol.com
Put yourself in the artists shoes...heres an example, what if a post stated that...
"Hey! I NEED a 2-D Artists for my new RPG. It''s gonna be cool. I''m the CEO of BlackGothic software and im the only one in the company. I have no previous experience, never programmed in direct x that much, but i want to learn! anyway, i need a professional artist. to do the following
-8 characters
-World map
-Word Art"
Let''s examine what''s wrong...
1) The artists wants to see what you can do. He/She knows that your a programmer, by how good at programming are you? You need to supply information on how to retrieve your work examples.
2) You run your own "company" which really isn''t a true company, cause your 15, live with your parents, and your the only one who is in the "company". 3/4 of the time, this is the case for people who post.
3) Not good enough, or your doing a project that doesn''t intrest them. What''s differnt about your project that seperates it from all the others?
Another Tip: Someone mentioned before that artists were somewhat stubborn or wanted complete control while working in a group. That is simply false. They want to work as a team. The problem is, programmers, especially the one''s that have a "company" are often RUDE, demanding, and act as though they should be respected, while in reality they are the one''s who should be respecting the artists.
Keep that in mind next time all you Fake-CEO''s :-)
Andy Sharkey
Sharkey323@aol.com
Geez! Please, someone be sensible!
Put yourself in the artists shoes...heres an example, what if a post stated that...
"Hey! I NEED a 2-D Artists for my new RPG. It''s gonna be cool. I''m the CEO of BlackGothic software and im the only one in the company. I have no previous experience, never programmed in direct x that much, but i want to learn! anyway, i need a professional artist. to do the following
-8 characters
-World map
-Word Art"
Let''s examine what''s wrong...
1) The artists wants to see what you can do. He/She knows that your a programmer, by how good at programming are you? You need to supply information on how to retrieve your work examples.
2) You run your own "company" which really isn''t a true company, cause your 15, live with your parents, and your the only one who is in the "company". 3/4 of the time, this is the case for people who post.
3) Not good enough, or your doing a project that doesn''t intrest them. What''s differnt about your project that seperates it from all the others?
Another Tip: Someone mentioned before that artists were somewhat stubborn or wanted complete control while working in a group. That is simply false. They want to work as a team. The problem is, programmers, especially the one''s that have a "company" are often RUDE, demanding, and act as though they should be respected, while in reality they are the one''s who should be respecting the artists.
Keep that in mind next time all you Fake-CEO''s :-)
Andy Sharkey
Sharkey323@aol.com
Put yourself in the artists shoes...heres an example, what if a post stated that...
"Hey! I NEED a 2-D Artists for my new RPG. It''s gonna be cool. I''m the CEO of BlackGothic software and im the only one in the company. I have no previous experience, never programmed in direct x that much, but i want to learn! anyway, i need a professional artist. to do the following
-8 characters
-World map
-Word Art"
Let''s examine what''s wrong...
1) The artists wants to see what you can do. He/She knows that your a programmer, by how good at programming are you? You need to supply information on how to retrieve your work examples.
2) You run your own "company" which really isn''t a true company, cause your 15, live with your parents, and your the only one who is in the "company". 3/4 of the time, this is the case for people who post.
3) Not good enough, or your doing a project that doesn''t intrest them. What''s differnt about your project that seperates it from all the others?
Another Tip: Someone mentioned before that artists were somewhat stubborn or wanted complete control while working in a group. That is simply false. They want to work as a team. The problem is, programmers, especially the one''s that have a "company" are often RUDE, demanding, and act as though they should be respected, while in reality they are the one''s who should be respecting the artists.
Keep that in mind next time all you Fake-CEO''s :-)
Andy Sharkey
Sharkey323@aol.com
There are numerous reasons why artists don''t reply back to the posts made in the help wanted forums. Here are the mistakes I see when programmers post looking for artists..
#1. "We are making a game. Our game is like doom, I''m going to produce it and we have a programmer on the team. Note this is a un-paid position"
EHHHHH *buzzer sound*. Artists see at least 100 of these a day, What makes your game diffrent? Next...This is an un-paid position, realize that most people who consider themselves artists don''t usualy work for free, so try to offer them something that they might be intrested in to work on your team. A better post would be something like...
"Hello, My name is . My current development team and I have been working on a game for the past few months. It''s almost completed. We are now looking for an artist to produce something better than the current "programmer art". I would be happy to send a copy of the game to all parties intrested in producing the art for this project so that you can see this is not one of those games that will never make it through the final stages of development. Although I wish I could; I can not afford to pay the individuals who respond. however I realize that your time is precious and I would like to possibly work out some other type of arrangement for your services. Though I would also like to point out that if you sign onto the project your name will be appearing at next years Game Development Confrence, after we submit it for review at the Independant Game Developers Contest."
Now lets review why this is better...
#1. You actualy have a product that''s almost completed.
#2. You can prove to the artist your not someone who''s going to
use their artwork, and abandon the project because the
programming gets to difficult.
#3. Although you can''t pay them, you are trying to work out
something else. Even if it''s a giant Flashing yellow credit
at the end of the game.
#4. Note the tone of the post, your treating the artist more
like a human being than a peice of meat.
#5. The possibility that someone in the gaming industry might
see their credit at the GDC, and/or the game could be
published if it wins the IGDC should be enough
encouragement for any "game artist"
As I said before artists see "Artist wanted" ads all the time. 90% of these artists have been screwed by the people who posted them. They are both synical and skeptical. They want to help but don''t want to waste their time producing art for a game that will never make it out of the "Beta" stage.
As for limitations, they are easy to work around when you let the artists know up front. Don''t wait until all the work is done to tell them you need your textures in powers of 2. Also explain to them that powers of 2 are not the same as multiples of 2. They often don''t understand that. Also if at all possible try to learn a little about the artists world, it makes dealing with them much easier when you can put yourself in their position.
#1. "We are making a game. Our game is like doom, I''m going to produce it and we have a programmer on the team. Note this is a un-paid position"
EHHHHH *buzzer sound*. Artists see at least 100 of these a day, What makes your game diffrent? Next...This is an un-paid position, realize that most people who consider themselves artists don''t usualy work for free, so try to offer them something that they might be intrested in to work on your team. A better post would be something like...
"Hello, My name is . My current development team and I have been working on a game for the past few months. It''s almost completed. We are now looking for an artist to produce something better than the current "programmer art". I would be happy to send a copy of the game to all parties intrested in producing the art for this project so that you can see this is not one of those games that will never make it through the final stages of development. Although I wish I could; I can not afford to pay the individuals who respond. however I realize that your time is precious and I would like to possibly work out some other type of arrangement for your services. Though I would also like to point out that if you sign onto the project your name will be appearing at next years Game Development Confrence, after we submit it for review at the Independant Game Developers Contest."
Now lets review why this is better...
#1. You actualy have a product that''s almost completed.
#2. You can prove to the artist your not someone who''s going to
use their artwork, and abandon the project because the
programming gets to difficult.
#3. Although you can''t pay them, you are trying to work out
something else. Even if it''s a giant Flashing yellow credit
at the end of the game.
#4. Note the tone of the post, your treating the artist more
like a human being than a peice of meat.
#5. The possibility that someone in the gaming industry might
see their credit at the GDC, and/or the game could be
published if it wins the IGDC should be enough
encouragement for any "game artist"
As I said before artists see "Artist wanted" ads all the time. 90% of these artists have been screwed by the people who posted them. They are both synical and skeptical. They want to help but don''t want to waste their time producing art for a game that will never make it out of the "Beta" stage.
As for limitations, they are easy to work around when you let the artists know up front. Don''t wait until all the work is done to tell them you need your textures in powers of 2. Also explain to them that powers of 2 are not the same as multiples of 2. They often don''t understand that. Also if at all possible try to learn a little about the artists world, it makes dealing with them much easier when you can put yourself in their position.
I once tried a career of artist, but it didn't went well. It's not because of me, but the lack of that decent true color tile editor I've been searching since then, like holy grail or something...
I find it harder to find programmers. Especially for a RPG project which has been under development for six years
Edited by - paulkp on July 5, 2001 5:45:43 PM
I find it harder to find programmers. Especially for a RPG project which has been under development for six years
Edited by - paulkp on July 5, 2001 5:45:43 PM
There's some simple reasons I don't answer any of those posts asking for artists:
1. The people posting them have nothing to show. I'm talking about code/demo/engines here, not flashy websites or nice graphics. If a person is looking for an artist, I expect them to have a crap website and a demo that has the same graphical quality as pong. But I also expect them to have an engine that's capable of taking the art I'd supply, and putting it straight up on the screen, in the game. If they aren't at this stage yet, they shouldn't be asking for an artist.
2. They mislead potential artists with the "I'm the CEO of d1ck-pu!!er entartenment" routine. I have 5 registered businesses myself, they're $50 a pop down here in Australia, it doesn't impress me and it doesn't make me want to "work" for you. Gamedev is a hobby for me, not a job, so I want to work with other hobby teams with a laid back approach. I don't have 10 hours a day to give to someone who acts like they're a paying boss.
3. *if* I sign up, there's a total lack of progress. If I give you a whole textured level with NPCs and Items, I want you to send me an updated demo of the game that HAS this stuff in it. Or if we're talking 2D and I send in a bunch of tiles and the graphics for the main character, next time you send me a demo, I expect that stuff to be in there. It rarely is... more likely I'll send you a bunch of assets and they will sit on your hard drive for a month while you struggle to load them in...
That's my rant. Don't get me wrong.. I know everyone is at different levels and we're all learning as we go.. but I also feel that while it's ok to waste your own time, it's bad form to waste someone elses. The simple truth I guess is taht if you're not at a stage in your project where you need an artist, don't start asking for one. The flipside is that if you ARE at this stage, posting a simple demo or screenshot of your engine is all the convincing you'll need to do to get an artist.
Unfortunately, having said all that... and having checked this thread before I posted, I guess another posibility could be that there's just not many artists on gamedev
Edited by - CatalystJones on July 6, 2001 1:43:55 AM
1. The people posting them have nothing to show. I'm talking about code/demo/engines here, not flashy websites or nice graphics. If a person is looking for an artist, I expect them to have a crap website and a demo that has the same graphical quality as pong. But I also expect them to have an engine that's capable of taking the art I'd supply, and putting it straight up on the screen, in the game. If they aren't at this stage yet, they shouldn't be asking for an artist.
2. They mislead potential artists with the "I'm the CEO of d1ck-pu!!er entartenment" routine. I have 5 registered businesses myself, they're $50 a pop down here in Australia, it doesn't impress me and it doesn't make me want to "work" for you. Gamedev is a hobby for me, not a job, so I want to work with other hobby teams with a laid back approach. I don't have 10 hours a day to give to someone who acts like they're a paying boss.
3. *if* I sign up, there's a total lack of progress. If I give you a whole textured level with NPCs and Items, I want you to send me an updated demo of the game that HAS this stuff in it. Or if we're talking 2D and I send in a bunch of tiles and the graphics for the main character, next time you send me a demo, I expect that stuff to be in there. It rarely is... more likely I'll send you a bunch of assets and they will sit on your hard drive for a month while you struggle to load them in...
That's my rant. Don't get me wrong.. I know everyone is at different levels and we're all learning as we go.. but I also feel that while it's ok to waste your own time, it's bad form to waste someone elses. The simple truth I guess is taht if you're not at a stage in your project where you need an artist, don't start asking for one. The flipside is that if you ARE at this stage, posting a simple demo or screenshot of your engine is all the convincing you'll need to do to get an artist.
Unfortunately, having said all that... and having checked this thread before I posted, I guess another posibility could be that there's just not many artists on gamedev
Edited by - CatalystJones on July 6, 2001 1:43:55 AM
This topic is closed to new replies.
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