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Making small ideas work

Started by February 15, 2015 03:35 PM
13 comments, last by Gian-Reto 9 years, 7 months ago

Hi,

I try to make a little game on my own, not really for profit but more for portfolio (this way I don't have to have great 3D or art and so I don't have to hire someone because I suck at it).

My main problem is that I can't seem to get interesting small ideas. Every single time I have an idea it's one with AAA number of features. Then I try to drop a lot of stuff to make it doable by myself and it ends up really boring as a game.

Maybe it's because of my taste in games? I basically never play mobile games or small games because I usually don't really like them. My favorite games are Dota 2 by far then Starcraft 2, Diablo, TF2, Dishonored, Metal Gear Solid or old stuff like Doom and so on...

I am never really been a person who plays a ton of different games but I play the ones I play for multiple years.

Like I played during probably 5 years the MMORPG Ragnarok and since then I play Dota 2 most of the time when I have time for it.

Maybe I am not really made for this kind of thing? To be honest I think it might be the case and all in all I don't want to do game design as a job so it wouldn't be too bad but for my portfolio I'd like to have stuff that is a minimum fun.

Do you experience something like this sometimes?

You said that you don't want to do game design as a job, so what would be the profession that you want to work in? If you want to work as a programmer your portfolio won't be judged by how much fun the games are, the important factor will be your code. Same goes for artists (actually I can't remember having seen an artist's portfolio that had playable games in it biggrin.png).
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Don't confuse small ideas with small execution. Small ideas rarely works. Also don't confuse number of features with a deep & complex gameplay.

Check my "WizTowerSim": http://www.silverlemur.com/minigames/

Is this game simple or complex? How long would it take you to implement something like that?

You can make a complex & interesting game in a few days/weeks. If you use dirty tricks of course :)

Stellar Monarch (4X, turn based, released): GDN forum topic - Twitter - Facebook - YouTube

Don't know if that helps, but "try to focus"...

By that I mean, if you have trouble designing a very simple game, take your AAA game, and when you cut it to size, instead of reducing everything by a set amount, throw out features while not touching others, until you found your 1-3 core features that need to be in the game, and that you are sure need to be polished.

Everything but the kitchen sink works fine when you are a big studio designing the next GTA, even then sometimes the amount of systems and features layered in modern AAA games is ridicolous.... most people can only ever concentrate on and play a small subset of the features.

Lets take a modern shooter... lets say you are eager on shooter gameplay, and want a really realistic shot physics... but you know designing a whole level to run around in is WAY too much work.

Kick out the movement mechanics for example, leaving you with a static shooter. Sound boring? Might be. But lots of games in the arcades in the 90s where basically rail shooters where you didn't care about the movement parts, and some of them might have been even static shooters. You could simply implement a cover mechanic to spice up things, and make the setting it takes place in (your "shooting gallery") and the enemies interesting enough and it might already be an workable concept.


My favorite games are Dota 2 by far then Starcraft 2, Diablo, TF2, Dishonored, Metal Gear Solid or old stuff like Doom and so on...

Here is your answer...

Games like Dota or TF started as mods (others: DayZ,Natural Selection etc.), using an existing game, existing mechanism, existing community, existing art to start from and shape a completely new game. Utilize this to create a game which would be otherwise impossible for a single developer.

If you didn't play some smaller games, you should just play some of them. You should have played games like simple platformers, tower defenses, pong, snake, breakout, puzzle games, and other mini games.
Another problem about your ideas is: they are just ideas, but you can only find out for sure if your game idea is fun, when you're able to play it, e. g. by having a playable prototype. Also it's possible to make almost any idea fun, just by iterating over it and searching for aspects to improve on.

Keep in mind: a game isn't necessarily "fun" because it implements a "good idea", but most games are fun to play because it feels good to play them. In this regard you should take a look at e. g. the Talk "Juice It or Lose It" (by Martin Jonassan and Petri Purho) or the talk about game feel (by Jan Willem Nijman). By listening to the talks you should recognize: you can make almost any game a fun to play game.
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First of all thanks to all of you for your answers!

You said that you don't want to do game design as a job, so what would be the profession that you want to work in? If you want to work as a programmer your portfolio won't be judged by how much fun the games are, the important factor will be your code. Same goes for artists (actually I can't remember having seen an artist's portfolio that had playable games in it biggrin.png).

Well that's the main reason as to why I do this, to have something most people don't have. I am a sound designer and I do the games to put sounds into them and proove some general game knowledge + programming knowledge.

Don't confuse small ideas with small execution. Small ideas rarely works. Also don't confuse number of features with a deep & complex gameplay.

Check my "WizTowerSim": http://www.silverlemur.com/minigames/

Is this game simple or complex? How long would it take you to implement something like that?

You can make a complex & interesting game in a few days/weeks. If you use dirty tricks of course smile.png

It's funny because the little game I have right now looks a bit like this or I should say has the same basics. It's some stuff where you build your base and every random amount of times you get a random attack and you have to survive it. At least that's the final goal but it's not finished yet (almost tho when it comes to programming).

I think the main idea is not bad but random events part of it sucks, I wanted to make it multiplayer but I am not good enough at coding networks. So this is the kind of thing that pisses me off a bit.

Don't know if that helps, but "try to focus"...

By that I mean, if you have trouble designing a very simple game, take your AAA game, and when you cut it to size, instead of reducing everything by a set amount, throw out features while not touching others, until you found your 1-3 core features that need to be in the game, and that you are sure need to be polished.

Everything but the kitchen sink works fine when you are a big studio designing the next GTA, even then sometimes the amount of systems and features layered in modern AAA games is ridicolous.... most people can only ever concentrate on and play a small subset of the features.

Lets take a modern shooter... lets say you are eager on shooter gameplay, and want a really realistic shot physics... but you know designing a whole level to run around in is WAY too much work.

Kick out the movement mechanics for example, leaving you with a static shooter. Sound boring? Might be. But lots of games in the arcades in the 90s where basically rail shooters where you didn't care about the movement parts, and some of them might have been even static shooters. You could simply implement a cover mechanic to spice up things, and make the setting it takes place in (your "shooting gallery") and the enemies interesting enough and it might already be an workable concept.

This is what I did for my current game, I just cut features like crazy but at the point where I am, I think it's not fun anymore.


My favorite games are Dota 2 by far then Starcraft 2, Diablo, TF2, Dishonored, Metal Gear Solid or old stuff like Doom and so on...

Here is your answer...

Games like Dota or TF started as mods (others: DayZ,Natural Selection etc.), using an existing game, existing mechanism, existing community, existing art to start from and shape a completely new game. Utilize this to create a game which would be otherwise impossible for a single developer.

The problem with this, is I fear it would limit me for the sound system which is why I do games in the first place. But I don't know much about mods, I'll look into it.

If you didn't play some smaller games, you should just play some of them. You should have played games like simple platformers, tower defenses, pong, snake, breakout, puzzle games, and other mini games.
Another problem about your ideas is: they are just ideas, but you can only find out for sure if your game idea is fun, when you're able to play it, e. g. by having a playable prototype. Also it's possible to make almost any idea fun, just by iterating over it and searching for aspects to improve on.

Keep in mind: a game isn't necessarily "fun" because it implements a "good idea", but most games are fun to play because it feels good to play them. In this regard you should take a look at e. g. the Talk "Juice It or Lose It" (by Martin Jonassan and Petri Purho) or the talk about game feel (by Jan Willem Nijman). By listening to the talks you should recognize: you can make almost any game a fun to play game.

Thank you I'll definitly check it out.

I think I also have this problem with making games : I really enjoy the beginning when I have to solve some problems (probably simple for a pro programmer but I am not one) but then when I solved the problems, the programming for say the UI and stuff like this really feels like a chore.


The problem with this, is I fear it would limit me for the sound system which is why I do games in the first place. But I don't know much about mods, I'll look into it.

I don't know your special requirements, if you have one or more games which would satisfy your sound system requirements, then check if they support modding. Here is a large database about mods, hope it helps.

This is what I did for my current game, I just cut features like crazy but at the point where I am, I think it's not fun anymore.

Well, then you should analyse a little bit deeper why it is not fun anymore.

Maybe you cut a feature too much? Maybe you focused on the wrong set of features? Maybe you did everything right, but after you cut your initial starting point to size, you would have had to "put it back into shape" by refining what was left?

To come back to my example, just taking an FPS and cutting out movement does not make for an interesting game. It might even be a jarring expierience as people EXEPCT movement to be there.

You would need to add small gameplay elements to make it a fun expierience without actual movement (like the ability to duck into cover, or other small features that are inexpensive art and codewise, but could alter gameplay a lot), and maybe some art / story elements to prevent the whole missing movement thing being jarring (explain why the player cannot leave the room hes in... or let him play as a static turret for example).

By doing that, the whole things feels less like an "FPS without movement", and more like something very different.

In the end, if there is one thing I learned as a not-game-designer from reading game design books, its the simple fact that most ideas you implement are not fun initially... no matter how much time an thought you invest into planning a feature, the first iteration will most probably suck. You need to test it, analyze it, iterate on it, and generally try and error until you "find the fun"... there can be a lot of fun hidden in the weirdest ideas, and from what I can tell, the fun is not something that comes from a good idea itself, but from a good implementation of an idea...

Even bad ideas can be fun if someone spent enough time to iterate on it and polish it to perfection.

Of course, if you already spent a lot of time trying to pull off an idea, it might be just too hard to make it fun (though it might warrant a forum post here to see if fellow game devs might come up with a good way to make it more fun).

A fun fact from my own expierience: most of the time, it takes some time and exposure to a prototype to come up with the best ideas... and sometimes you just need a break. In my own case, I really struggled getting cross country driving to work with the limited physics of wheel colliders in Unity last year. I tweaked it until it was usable, but was never really satisfied with it.

over 6 months later I worked on a different topic on the same prototype and was searching the web for answers when I stumbled upon an answer that somehow gave me a good idea of how to make the wheel colliders react more realistically to bumps in the terrain... lo and behold, it worked brilliantly. Suddenly driving cross country feels just right, and it is a quite cheap method in comparison with what I tried before too.

As they say, the best ideas usually come under the shower smile.png ... and sometimes the best idea just take some time, and yes, sometimes some distance from the project to pop up.


Don't confuse small ideas with small execution. Small ideas rarely works. Also don't confuse number of features with a deep & complex gameplay.

Check my "WizTowerSim": http://www.silverlemur.com/minigames/

Is this game simple or complex? How long would it take you to implement something like that?

You can make a complex & interesting game in a few days/weeks. If you use dirty tricks of course smile.png

It's funny because the little game I have right now looks a bit like this or I should say has the same basics. It's some stuff where you build your base and every random amount of times you get a random attack and you have to survive it. At least that's the final goal but it's not finished yet (almost tho when it comes to programming).

I think the main idea is not bad but random events part of it sucks, I wanted to make it multiplayer but I am not good enough at coding networks. So this is the kind of thing that pisses me off a bit.

Do not escalate :) No multiplayer, you are not looking how to add yourself more work but how to remove some work :)

If you have a working concept, go for it. Do not add unneeded things.

Stellar Monarch (4X, turn based, released): GDN forum topic - Twitter - Facebook - YouTube

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