1 hour ago, cowsarenotevil said:Why not because they can talk about it? As you point out, your own consciousness (insofar as that's a thing that exists at all) is self-evident to you, but when you talk about it, are you actually referring to it?
If so, then it would, at least, be pretty implausible that other people would appear to talk about their own consciousness if it weren't something that they themselves also actually have.
If not, then there's some even weirder coincidence afoot: you experience consciousness, but when you talk about your own consciousness, you're actually talking about something different than the consciousness you actually experience.
Basically, either consciousness manifests itself physically to the extent that people are at least able to refer to it in speech and writing, or it doesn't, meaning we can't actually refer to it at all despite the fact that we appear to be discussing it. In the former case, the fact that people outside of your own perception of consciousness claim to refer to consciousness would suggest that they too actually can refer to it, and thus experience it in some way.
In the latter case, either it's pure coincidence that we merely appear to be discussing a phenomenon that actually exists (but cannot actually be discussed), or consciousness doesn't exist at all.
Maybe I misunderstood your reply but:
If I write a program that prints "I have consciousness" if you press enter (or make some other simple claims), does it make it have consciousness? Also if I can't discuss about consciousness with somebody because that person can't effectively reason about anything (like me) or simply that person is blind and deaf, does it mean no consciousness?
What I'm trying to say that it's pretty arrogant for anyone to tell that some other entity doesn't have consciousness (especially just because one "feels" ones consciousness, or whatever.) I'm not saying it's not magic. I'm only saying that (I think) manking is not special.
Plus, just because something doesn't exist, we can talk about it. Hell, I'm not even sure we are talking about the same thing... So much for "can refer to it, therefore it exists"
Edit: I think I "sense" what most of you try to imply by the "knowledge of consciousness affects the physical world, since we are talking about it, therefore somehow consciousness must be out of this world" thing, but the "therefore somehow consciousness must be out of this world" part is something beyond my linguistic abilities to reason about. I "feel" that this part is the mistake in our thinking (and leeds to the classic dilemma/contradiction of predestination).