Hello,

I don't know about you guys, but I get the distinct impression that most indie teams don't bother to create a resisted company. 

Sure, there are the good ones that do. But how common is this?

I know in the modding sphere, forming actual companies is really rare. 

What do yall think?

I like to draw a distinction between indie and hobbyist developers.

In my mind, indie developers operate as a business including things like registration, more serious marketing efforts, maybe market research, etc.

Hobbyist developers are less serious about being business-like, and usually won't register a business or carry out as many business-like activities. They may still make money from their hobby.

Most people don't seem to make this distinction, but I find it to be a useful categorization.

42 minutes ago, jbadams said:

I like to draw a distinction between indie and hobbyist developers.... Most people don't seem to make this distinction, but I find it to be a useful categorization.

Very! ?

10 hours ago, Tom Sloper said:

Very! ?

What JB said.On the internet I often see people use "indie" to mean absolutely anyone who's trying to make a game. Beginners, hobbyists, etc... But "indie" is defined in terms of what you are not -- that unlike traditional studios, you are not controlled by money from a publisher/investor. Hobbyists are never controlled by external money, so it makes no sense for them to be indie. They're outside of the indie<->traditional game studio spectrum. Only businesses can be controlled by publishers/investors, so businesses are the only things that can be indie.

If you're selling a product, in most jurisdictions you are a business automatically by engaging in such activities. One option is being a sole-trader, where you as a person and you-as-a-business are the same legal entity, but this is generally not a very good idea (especially if multiple people are involved), so actually creating a separate legal entity is a very good idea. When you sign agreements with people like Steam, they're going to need all your business numbers and registration details in order to be able to sell your product and deal with the tax implications properly. Here in Australia, becoming a sole trader takes 5 minutes on the tax office's website, and you've instantly got the business registration number that you need in order to fill out your tax paperwork. Registering an actual separate entity (LLC / PTY LTD / etc) is a bit more involved, but can still be done quickly on the internet for like $500.

The other difference between a hobbyist and an indie is whether you're actually taking the business of running a business seriously. Did you do market research? Do you have a marketing plan? Do you have production plans? Milestones? Do you court investors because #*@! this indie thing, getting some of that old money would be nice? Do you do your taxes? Do you apply for government grants that subsidize start-ups, local small businesses, R&D, creative/art works? Do you actually hire professionals and pay for the talent that you need? Did you put aside your great game idea that you love and make something that you don't quite love as much because you know that your text based pony simulator magnum opus doesn't have the same market appeal as your backup game idea?

In real life, I personally know a few dozen indie studios in my city. Most are actual companies (PTY LTD), and a few are sole traders. Many are in the 1-3 people size! This is selection bias (because I don't get to meet all the bedroom coders making games as a hobby in these indie circles) but all of these indies are running actual game dev companies, even if there's only one or two staff in them.

On 9/8/2018 at 8:10 PM, Hodgman said:

The other difference between a hobbyist and an indie is whether you're actually taking the business of running a business seriously.

I'm quite fond of the old article Shareware Amateurs vs. Shareware Professionals.  Other than some dated terminology ("shareware") it's held up remarkably well for a >10 year old article.  Unfortunately most of the links in it are long since dead, as the author transitioned from indie developer (before the term really existed or was popular!) to self help guru.

Interesting points, 

Ya Hobbyest and indie distinction is an important one that I didn't make originally. 

Good above article, gave some good points

Ya, hobbyests seem to rarely crate companies, and some indies do, but  not as many as I'd think. 

I cannot stress the importance of incorporating if your going to start selling your game, entering into agreements with contractors, or generally turning your passion into an actual business. Depending on the state your in, incorporation for an LLC is not the expensive in the long run, and provides get pass-through tax benefits especially when you can write off equipment and software. (check with your tax advisor) Additionally, incorporation provides you protection of your personal assets, no one wants to be sued personally for something their company did, why risk your livelihood?