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Is this type of RTS possible? (polygon count)

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47 comments, last by Newgamemodder 3 years, 2 months ago

The thing is the image above there are about 6 x 9 squads in view (almost). That's 54 soldiers.

https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/heavy-clone-trooper-from-battlefront-2-800d6a308f404243960cec9619d9d66e

Considering the one above has about 10-15K extra equipment

https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/bf2-clone-trooper-bd96ed8c58524926b3507bfbd30f9b17

And if i remember correctly it is the highest lod in the mod so thats 54 x 40000 =

2160000 Triangles

Also dont forget to include weapon polygon count that's maybe 1.5k-3k (1.5 x 54)

Considering the game those infantry are for is for a gpu with 256 MB NOT GB.

Also regarding total war three kingdoms, if we assume the polygon count for an infantryman is 1k tris and the maximum amount of soldiers are 24000 that would be 24000000 triangles. Excluding terrain and props…

Am i still insane if 200 million can be on screen at once? :/ (without multiplying with 60 fps)

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Just try it. Put your 40k triangle mesh in the game and see how it runs.

Surely that game has multiple levels of mesh detail though?

You only need the high resolution mesh and textures when the camera is close to the unit, and generally gameplay and physics means the camera can't be close to very many units on a single frame.

Recap:

  • It's certainly possible to render 50 high-poly stormtroopers, like in the screenshot, on a normal CPU, with serious effort required to make them look good, not for performance.
  • It's also possible to render a long range shot of huge hordes of stormtroopers, if they have the appropriate low detail for their small size.
  • If for interesting graphical reasons it makes sense to show the “same” numerous stormtroopers both up close and at a long distance, it's possible to render them if their details are adjusted with viewing distance. Extra points for accurate culling of occluded objects, which would be very impactful with a few foreground objects that could each occlude thousands of distant ones.
  • On the other hand, simulating thousands of stormtroopers is difficult, to the point of constraining game rules to fit in your CPU and memory budget.

So you shouldn't concern yourself with polygons per second until you have a solid estimate of what you need to draw (i.e. a reasonably fun prototype to greenlight); then you'll be able to develop rendering and test different styles, more or less detailed 3D models, LOD approaches, adjustments to scenes (e.g. more hills to ensure that units on the far side are occluded), etc.

Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru

I understand, LOD's are very important ?

There's nothing i can do now unless the developers do anything. They know the engine more than me so they can tell me what is possible and what isn't, Also my polygon calculation is a worst case scenario if all units are fighting at once on the same place on the map.

Newgamemodder said:
They know the engine more than me

No. The important part of your game engine is implementing the pathfinding, AI, physics, etc. required for a RTS game, and it isn't done yet. Regarding the worst case rendering scenario, you can expect to draw several cheap fragments per pixel with a reasonably high ratio of fragments to primitives and run into trouble only with many small primitives, extravagant overdraw, or unusually expensive shaders. Anything more requires detailed design and tests.

Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru

Newgamemodder said:
if all units are fighting at once on the same place on the map.

No. Units have a size, more units need more room, and “all units” will be always spread over a large extent of the battlefield, Therefore, they'll be visible only at long range, i.e. allowing a LOD reduction.

Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru

Top down RTS often does not need LODs, because models are always displayed at about the same ratio. (In that case you need to reduce the model just once so it looks right and performs well.)
FPS with perspective view usually needs LODs, because enemy at the distance is much smaller than close up.

Some RTS use LODs still to zoom in or show cutscenes.

LorenzoGatti said:

Newgamemodder said:
They know the engine more than me

No. The important part of your game engine is implementing the pathfinding, AI, physics, etc. required for a RTS game, and it isn't done yet. Regarding the worst case rendering scenario, you can expect to draw several cheap fragments per pixel with a reasonably high ratio of fragments to primitives and run into trouble only with many small primitives, extravagant overdraw, or unusually expensive shaders. Anything more requires detailed design and tests.

Well like i said it's not my engine, Tobehonest i don't know what you mean with the “fragments per pixel” part :/

Aha so the “more units need more room” is a positive thing?, even if the game has a cinematic mode?

Joe the image i posted before was form a game with a lod system ? It's the zoom in part the game has

When i am counting polygon count for the dead units is it overkill to multiply my units by 2?, if it is my polygon count is about 117 million-125 million in total (bodies stay around for a couple of minutes before disappearing)

So total polygon count for units is about 95 million

Buildings and garrisons: 8060000 million

Props: 5 million

Indigenous and turrets: 2.8 million

10 million for buildings and walls

Like i said it's not from the game image i posted or the video so i can't test this yet… :/

If you have a “cinematic mode” it can employ completely different assets and rendering techniques, including

  • canned video instead of realtime rendering
  • precomputed and procedural animations instead of regular AI and movement
  • cheating with carefully crafted camera angles and scenes
  • rendering what you can in advance, to offscreen buffers (e.g. a replay of an actual battle scene seen from a different point of view)

So the only graphics you need to worry about are the regular case of normal views, which normally use a consistent view at a fixed scale and compatibly scaled assets, not models with tens of thousands of subpixel triangles.

In other words, stop counting triangles now and think of gameplay. Triangles in a RTS are only going to be a problem if you do something completely unreasonable.

As “homework”, why don't you study and compare assets and camera handling in the Warcraft and Starcraft games? If you need to learn, learn from the masters.

Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru

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