Get rid of the "thrid party will destroy Limbo" idea and just make it "third party used power to give you legally void status in limbo." Make that thing be the reason that a living man, you, was mistaken for a dead man and sent to Limbo for processing. After you realize that you are a procedural contradiction and can never actually get through the red tape that rules that dimension, you learn that you can only return to your body, your world and your loved ones by defeating this thing.
A nice juicy ulterior motive would be just the ticket. Maybe it''s a supernatural being that your co-worker enlisted to get you out of the picture so he could get your wife, or it''s a being that your great-grandfather banished to Limbo a hundred years ago, out for revenge, or else maybe it''s benevolent, and you have to help it or learn something from it before you can be sent back.
Throw in a time limit of some kind, like your wife losing hope and having the doctors pull the plug, or your body wasting away for want of a soul, or your jerk partner stealing your wife. What was the time limit thing in Yu-yu Hakusho? He had like a day to get back in his body, or something, something, something. That was a different premise, but it might have a few neat ideas for you to investigate.
This idea is pretty sweet, and I think that taking the "save the world" objective out of the design is liberating, rather than constricting. Don''t lose hope; this game idea has endless potential.
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shades of grey
Sounds rather promising, though a little restricted. But then again, all''s I''ve seen is the initial condition setting up the storyline; I''m sure your idea would expand beyond simply getting a document, or the actual getting a document bit would be considerably more than meets the eyes. 
I like the maze of red tape idea; it''s got potential for a lot of things. Comical relief, for one, given the exasperating futility of it all. For an other, various shady approaches could be integrated in the game to allow the player to get through the red tape, such as finding a higher executive and beating the living tar out of them to get a document to obtain a certain form from an other executive, or hiring someone to bypass certain forms.
Sounds like a potentially good idea; I''m quite sure a change from the "save the world" plot would be welcomed (although I fail to see anything wrong with that kind of storyline, if it''s well-executed.)
I like the maze of red tape idea; it''s got potential for a lot of things. Comical relief, for one, given the exasperating futility of it all. For an other, various shady approaches could be integrated in the game to allow the player to get through the red tape, such as finding a higher executive and beating the living tar out of them to get a document to obtain a certain form from an other executive, or hiring someone to bypass certain forms.
Sounds like a potentially good idea; I''m quite sure a change from the "save the world" plot would be welcomed (although I fail to see anything wrong with that kind of storyline, if it''s well-executed.
)
I personaly don''t see a save the world plot or combat working well with this idea. Why not make the plot simply to come back to life? Isn''t that incentive enough?
Instead of combat in the traditional sense would be good after all how can you die if your already dead? why not have a debate or negotiation? The advisor could have their own sets of legal manuvers and debating tactics.
You encounter a demon and it says "Hahah, You have wandered into my domain, now your soul is forefit to me." you the respond with your advisors. you could use your dark advisors fabriacted evidence manuver, or light advisors legel loop hole to name a few.
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Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project: Ambitions Slave
Instead of combat in the traditional sense would be good after all how can you die if your already dead? why not have a debate or negotiation? The advisor could have their own sets of legal manuvers and debating tactics.
You encounter a demon and it says "Hahah, You have wandered into my domain, now your soul is forefit to me." you the respond with your advisors. you could use your dark advisors fabriacted evidence manuver, or light advisors legel loop hole to name a few.
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Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project: Ambitions Slave
Oh, man, having dialogue as combat would be sweet. You wouldn''t even need to have the content of the conversation in the battle, jus the maneuvering. A pudgy little demon jumps out and makes a claim to your immortal soul, so you consult your advisors and make a counterclaim, which he responds to with level 4 logic, which you defeat with a level 6 technicality, and he demands a change of venue. You petition to have his claim dismissed, he withdraws it and replaces it with a harrassment suit, and you respond by denying any knowledge of the previous events.
As you win the argument, the demon would get smaller and smaller, until he runs away, winks out of existence, or gets eaten by one or the other of your companions. If you lose, though, he grows larger and larger until he physically tears you in half. I can see the animations now...
As you win the argument, the demon would get smaller and smaller, until he runs away, winks out of existence, or gets eaten by one or the other of your companions. If you lose, though, he grows larger and larger until he physically tears you in half. I can see the animations now...
Author
I suppose it would be funny, but I am wondering if some people are taking thie leagal aspects of this too far..
the whole concept that brought about this much of the game was that the player would use either the powers of light or dark to fight his battles or accomplish his goals.
The legal part was thrown in because I thought it would have provided ample room for humor, places to go, enemies, and a decent explanation of while he was there in the first place.
but I will save that for the game design forum...
-more on story-
I think i have found a good way to save certain aspects of the story. here is a slightly altered, highly truncated version of what I have thought of it so far. including plot spoilers.
The whole thing that brought this about was a train accident, of which you are one of the victims, along with your family. The accident, although just an accident, is blamed on you by your subconcious mind. In self rejection, it tries to destroy you after you are awoken in Limbo.
You don''t remember any of this at the time - you just wake up in your room as previously stated. The plot continues up until I left off when I first posted.
You have steadily regained pieces of the accident, while you were digging through parts of your mind (your mind is connected to Limbo as other floors on that elevator) to meet certain accomplishments to be allowed to live again. As you are but few steps away from accomplishing that goal, parts of this evil subconcious mind of yours starts to invade Limbo. Since the rage from this mind is not dark or light - and not something Limbo has ever encountered - it wreaks havoc unopposed.
The parts of your mind form a version of you - your Doppelganger - to hunt you down and destroy you. It doesn''t care that if you are destroyed, it is too.
You think you have defeated it, but later, as you are finally able to leave back to the real world, it resurfaces and will destroy Limbo. Until it is destroyed, you can not wake up, either. You have to return down into the elevator, to your room, and discover a door under your bed
you drop down to the final level thingy, and face your subconcious doppelganger. During the battle, you must choose to become either fully light or dark, reguardless of what it would cost later. <there is an escellent article on gamasutra about how to put "choices" in games, btw.>
After it is over, the ending based on how you played, which side you used more, which you chose at the end, etc. will inform you that your family died during the accident. Despite all the trouble you caused, you could choose to go to heavan, hell(again, I''ll have to find a way to make it less sinister), to just stay in Limbo, or to wake up. the rest of the ending depends on what you do from there...
does that work as a good story? thanks for all the feedback n'' stuff.
the whole concept that brought about this much of the game was that the player would use either the powers of light or dark to fight his battles or accomplish his goals.
The legal part was thrown in because I thought it would have provided ample room for humor, places to go, enemies, and a decent explanation of while he was there in the first place.
but I will save that for the game design forum...
-more on story-
I think i have found a good way to save certain aspects of the story. here is a slightly altered, highly truncated version of what I have thought of it so far. including plot spoilers.
The whole thing that brought this about was a train accident, of which you are one of the victims, along with your family. The accident, although just an accident, is blamed on you by your subconcious mind. In self rejection, it tries to destroy you after you are awoken in Limbo.
You don''t remember any of this at the time - you just wake up in your room as previously stated. The plot continues up until I left off when I first posted.
You have steadily regained pieces of the accident, while you were digging through parts of your mind (your mind is connected to Limbo as other floors on that elevator) to meet certain accomplishments to be allowed to live again. As you are but few steps away from accomplishing that goal, parts of this evil subconcious mind of yours starts to invade Limbo. Since the rage from this mind is not dark or light - and not something Limbo has ever encountered - it wreaks havoc unopposed.
The parts of your mind form a version of you - your Doppelganger - to hunt you down and destroy you. It doesn''t care that if you are destroyed, it is too.
You think you have defeated it, but later, as you are finally able to leave back to the real world, it resurfaces and will destroy Limbo. Until it is destroyed, you can not wake up, either. You have to return down into the elevator, to your room, and discover a door under your bed
you drop down to the final level thingy, and face your subconcious doppelganger. During the battle, you must choose to become either fully light or dark, reguardless of what it would cost later. <there is an escellent article on gamasutra about how to put "choices" in games, btw.>
After it is over, the ending based on how you played, which side you used more, which you chose at the end, etc. will inform you that your family died during the accident. Despite all the trouble you caused, you could choose to go to heavan, hell(again, I''ll have to find a way to make it less sinister), to just stay in Limbo, or to wake up. the rest of the ending depends on what you do from there...
does that work as a good story? thanks for all the feedback n'' stuff.
The doppleganger is excellent. Good work. All other elements show great potential. This can turn into a very effective game.
I don''t like the idea of having the player choose to be either pure light or pure dark at then end. For one thing it doesn''t seem to make sense with the rest of the story nor doe it make sense with the title of shades of grey.
I also don''t like the idea of the ''evil'' parts of your subconcious being an unstopable force destroying limbo. After all I doubt this is the first person to die with a sense of self hatred.
I have suggestion that might work well and would only take a few modifactions to your story.
The Doppleganger is your id set loose by your the duality of your situation, you have died but according to limbo you are still alive. That and the trauma of your death allowed your id to manifest into "spirtual form?". Through the course of the game you show that since the doppleganer is as much you as you are, it is not certain which one of you is truely the doppleganger. Instead the players actions will deterime whether or not you are your true self or if you are in fact your id battleing against your true self.
well, that was a lot of "you"s in one paragraph but I think it makes sense.
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Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project: Ambitions Slave
I also don''t like the idea of the ''evil'' parts of your subconcious being an unstopable force destroying limbo. After all I doubt this is the first person to die with a sense of self hatred.
I have suggestion that might work well and would only take a few modifactions to your story.
The Doppleganger is your id set loose by your the duality of your situation, you have died but according to limbo you are still alive. That and the trauma of your death allowed your id to manifest into "spirtual form?". Through the course of the game you show that since the doppleganer is as much you as you are, it is not certain which one of you is truely the doppleganger. Instead the players actions will deterime whether or not you are your true self or if you are in fact your id battleing against your true self.
well, that was a lot of "you"s in one paragraph but I think it makes sense.
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Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project: Ambitions Slave
My two ideas:
Idea 1: Make the game a point and click adventure like Grim Fandango.
Idea 2: Make it so that the player is never actually involved in any combat, but gives orders to the attorneys to fight on his behalf. The more you choose to fight with one over the other also effects your alignment (which wont work at all with the story ive posted below!)
Now my idea for the story:
The player is in a train wreck as you suggested, and is lying in hospital in a coma. The player goes to limbo and is told that he must wait in line to see if the ''trans-dimensional-limbo-equating-ultimaten-deciding-device'' says he is going to die or not. To the players surprise this is a game of lotto.
As he sits around waiting to see if his number is chosen, he is run into by his subconcious doppelganger (who starts yelling and screaming its the players fault). They are both dragged to the main desk where they are told that the light side attorney will be assinged to the player as he wants to get out of limbo, and the dark side attorney will be assinged to (guy at desk reading from sheet of paper) ''to destroy the body to which he is attached, then reak havoc upon Limbo, destryoing the idiot at the front desk...''. The light side will need to prove that the accident was not fatal and did not kill the player, and the dark side needs to prove that the player did indeed die.
The two characters depart as the light and dark attorneys yell legal terms at each other. You could make it so that at this point the player can decide to play as either the light or dark character.
Idea 1: Make the game a point and click adventure like Grim Fandango.
Idea 2: Make it so that the player is never actually involved in any combat, but gives orders to the attorneys to fight on his behalf. The more you choose to fight with one over the other also effects your alignment (which wont work at all with the story ive posted below!)
Now my idea for the story:
The player is in a train wreck as you suggested, and is lying in hospital in a coma. The player goes to limbo and is told that he must wait in line to see if the ''trans-dimensional-limbo-equating-ultimaten-deciding-device'' says he is going to die or not. To the players surprise this is a game of lotto.
As he sits around waiting to see if his number is chosen, he is run into by his subconcious doppelganger (who starts yelling and screaming its the players fault). They are both dragged to the main desk where they are told that the light side attorney will be assinged to the player as he wants to get out of limbo, and the dark side attorney will be assinged to (guy at desk reading from sheet of paper) ''to destroy the body to which he is attached, then reak havoc upon Limbo, destryoing the idiot at the front desk...''. The light side will need to prove that the accident was not fatal and did not kill the player, and the dark side needs to prove that the player did indeed die.
The two characters depart as the light and dark attorneys yell legal terms at each other. You could make it so that at this point the player can decide to play as either the light or dark character.
Author
quote: Original post by boolean
My two ideas:
Idea 1: Make the game a point and click adventure like Grim Fandango.
Idea 2: Make it so that the player is never actually involved in any combat, but gives orders to the attorneys to fight on his behalf. The more you choose to fight with one over the other also effects your alignment (which wont work at all with the story ive posted below!)
Now my idea for the story:
The player is in a train wreck as you suggested, and is lying in hospital in a coma. The player goes to limbo and is told that he must wait in line to see if the ''trans-dimensional-limbo-equating-ultimaten-deciding-device'' says he is going to die or not. To the players surprise this is a game of lotto.
As he sits around waiting to see if his number is chosen, he is run into by his subconcious doppelganger (who starts yelling and screaming its the players fault). They are both dragged to the main desk where they are told that the light side attorney will be assinged to the player as he wants to get out of limbo, and the dark side attorney will be assinged to (guy at desk reading from sheet of paper) ''to destroy the body to which he is attached, then reak havoc upon Limbo, destryoing the idiot at the front desk...''. The light side will need to prove that the accident was not fatal and did not kill the player, and the dark side needs to prove that the player did indeed die.
The two characters depart as the light and dark attorneys yell legal terms at each other. You could make it so that at this point the player can decide to play as either the light or dark character.
I don''t know for sure, but I think I feel insulted...
Not to the dis-credit of anybody out there who likes click-and-play adventures, but I take no joy from playing them at all. I tend to have an open mind towards new ideas, but no. sorry. I just couldn''t do that to this game.
That said,
*ahem*
TechnoGoth, I like some of your suggestions. Maybe it might be better that you had to choose between one or the other if I elaborated on what either would mean.
Throughout the game the player would have to struggle with the fact that if he fails, he will be stuck in Limbo until he eventually decides Heavan or hell. Neither really appeals to him, and he does not like the fact that he must choose one or the other. He would get into arguments from time to time with the agents about why he has to make a choice at all.
When it finally comes to this point of the game, and in himself he does not have the power to beat himself, he must choose one or the other or be destroyed.
Do you not like the fact that you don''t know why you had to make that choice, or do you not feel comfortable making that choice? The goal of the ending of this game is to make the player feel a little weird, wondering inside why they chose the one they did.
You bring up a good point though, why is your subC so unstoppable? And more over, are you the only human in Limbo the entire time? I am not quite sure. I don''t have any answer for those questions yet. Any ideas?
And lastly, I have decided that you do find out that your family dies in the accident. Subway accident, instead of a train. The question is, how would that relate to the whole story, and how would it influence your choice at the end?
Sorry, But I''m kind of leaving with more questions than answers...
This is a fantastic idea!
I would seriously get rid of the 'limbo destruction' theme. It's not like it changes anything for the player. It's simply self preservation. The whole game is already about self preservation. What would you really accomplish by endangering limbo? It would change that:
1. You get a lot of help in saving limbo
2. You do people a favor who are actually working against you
Although 2 is funny, it's also a cliche. If you want to add a second layer tension, you might consider the following.
After you finally got all the legal stuff down and wrestled your subconscient mind down so that you can remerge with your body....your body rejects two minds that struggle with each other. Then you will have to take up things inside the mind and try to get it to cooperate after you wrestled it for control. Can you solve things diplomatically? And conversing or entering the reality of a sbconscience mind could certainly be interesting.
Just some musings....
[edited by - Dunam on April 2, 2004 3:04:43 PM]
I would seriously get rid of the 'limbo destruction' theme. It's not like it changes anything for the player. It's simply self preservation. The whole game is already about self preservation. What would you really accomplish by endangering limbo? It would change that:
1. You get a lot of help in saving limbo
2. You do people a favor who are actually working against you
Although 2 is funny, it's also a cliche. If you want to add a second layer tension, you might consider the following.
After you finally got all the legal stuff down and wrestled your subconscient mind down so that you can remerge with your body....your body rejects two minds that struggle with each other. Then you will have to take up things inside the mind and try to get it to cooperate after you wrestled it for control. Can you solve things diplomatically? And conversing or entering the reality of a sbconscience mind could certainly be interesting.
Just some musings....
[edited by - Dunam on April 2, 2004 3:04:43 PM]
This topic is closed to new replies.
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