quote: Original post by DungeonMaster

I have a fixed budget wich allow me to buy one game every month (if I dont buy something else), what when the game I bought sucks (I did buy U9 ), what if there are three games I want this month ? I cannot pay for these extra-games, so shall I choose not to eat to be able to play ?

Apply this philosophy to some other area of life. Say, clothing, or books, or transportation. You can''t afford new shoes, yet you want 3 pairs. Stealing them should be okay, then, right?

But it''s not. Instead, you''d learn to do without.

It''s not because stealing of the physical has been deeply engrained as wrong. But theft of intellectual property (MP3s, software, online books) isn''t seen as wrong because it''s so easy to do and we haven''t yet developed a culture of shame around it. (btw, not picking on you, just noting it''s so easy to make excuses)


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Just waiting for the mothership...

quote: Original post by Paul Cunningham

I recall a trick that a company did a long time ago. They made their own pirate version of their game which stuffed up at crucial points in the game. They then released the pirate version a few weeks before the game hit the shelves. The pirate game flooded the piracy rings which stopped good pirate version from getting to anyone because the piracy networks were saturated with the bad version of the game. As i understand, it actually worked quite well. There''s one for the books

Hahahahaha!!!!! YES!!!! If I ever get my act together and actually finish coding my game, I will do this!!!!!!!

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Just waiting for the mothership...

Wavy, apply this philosophy to food, you have enough to buy food for monday, but not for the rest of the week, so learn to eat only the monday...
I agree that I am stretching this a bit far, but imagine that everybody can have food, and every other things (we produce enough it seems to me), so then what is the point in paying, or even why money...
I think that the problem is not the money but the concept of property!
If something is rare, then you must have a mean of determining who can have it and who cannot, but in our society, even things wich are not rare and that everybody could have are paying. In my opinion there something wrong there.
I know this is a bit out of topic, but here you have to go to the heart of things to understand why this money-moral piss me off...

Dungeonmaster, if you think games are a necessity, and not a luxury, I think you should seriously see a doctor.

I am VERY offended at your viewpoint, being a professional software developer... And by the way, I live in a socialist country, where it is impossible NOT to have money for the necessities of life, like food, drink, shelter and medical care.

quote:
If something is rare, then you must have a mean of determining who can have it and who cannot, but in our society, even things which are not rare and that everybody could have are paying. In my opinion there something wrong there.

So, just because there are a lot of cars out there, everyone should have one? Just because you produce a product that happens to be easy to duplicate, everyone should have one for free? Dammit man, GROW UP! How old are you? Do you ever expect to make a living from software? With these attitudes, code for free the rest of your life and hand your stuff out to the poor...maybe the church will notice you ( about 3 years after you die from starvation ).


People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~

The Alchemist: I was VERY tempted to delete your message from this forum.
Let me make something very clear
I will NOT have posts condoning piracy in my forum.
I don''t care how passionate you are about it, or how much you feel like defending it, it will NOT happen again. I will not allow follow-up posts explaining why you are right, because you aren''t ( you are breaking the law ).
I will not allow posts that complain about me saying this either. It is my final word.

I''m sorry, but this forum is NOT going to turn into the lounge.

And now for the refutations of your post:
1. You have the internet. You have amazon.com, and a host of other companies that will mail-order you the software. Availability is an excuse.

2. The "Really High Price" simply means that the software is NOT intended to be used by 16-yearolds for bragging rights. 3D Studio is a VERY expensive program, because it''s just about the best out there. People have put years of their lives into developing it, but just because YOU can''t afford it, you want it for free.
Use SPatch, Rhino, Milk3D, or any other shareware 3D modeling program. Again, you have the internet, you can download these.
You don''t have the right to drive a ferrari either, you''ll have to start with a 10-year old renault. When you have your own business you''ll be able to move on to the professional stuff.

3. Sucks to be you, that''s one of the reasons I don''t have a playstation. PC games have demos to try them out, like you can test-drive a car. You don''t have 12 cars in your garage either just to try out which one you like driving best... and I''m willing to bet that for that one game you DO like, you''re not paying either.

4. Good for you that at least your saturn games are legal. Who cares about your piracy? I DO! I make my goddamn living writing and selling software. If you want to copy my stuff, fine, don''t be surprise if I sue your ass to hell when I get the chance. You are going to PAY for my hard work buster, and not get away with copying it just because you have branded yourself too poor for it to be reasonable to buy games.
( Hey, you had the money to buy the PC didn''t you? )


People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~

Sorry MadkeithV, I got a little carried away, but when I see that they are destroying food because they cannot sell it, they are destroying computers wich have not been sold, and so on, it pisses me off.
I agree that in the world as it is, you can''t do without money (well it''s very very hard).
But I do believe our society is no longer relevant in its present form and I am for social evolution, as well as personal evolution.
Ah yes, I''m 25 and I actually think like that, I must be disturbed by all those philosopher I read (when not reading Sci-Fi or heroic-fantasy).
My point was not to cross any of you professional software develloper, me working as one also, but not in the game industry . My point was that our society (world scale) has now the means for giving everybody what they want and games are part of what I want (not need, this is agreed).

quote: Original post by DungeonMaster
I agree that in the world as it is, you can''t do without money (well it''s very very hard).

Why would you WANT to do without money? Lets all go back to the "trading stuff" philosophy we had back in the stone age.
> Hey I have these goats, wanna trade them for your PentiumIII?
> What the heck do I need goats for??

Money is one of the best things ever invented for sharing of goods, it''s a standard that everything can be measured to.

quote: Original post by DungeonMaster
But I do believe our society is no longer relevant in its present form and I am for social evolution, as well as personal evolution.

I''m not against evolution, but for something''s sake, think about what you are trying to achieve.

quote: Original post by DungeonMaster
My point was that our society (world scale) has now the means for giving everybody what they want and games are part of what I want (not need, this is agreed).

Ehmm, what the hell gave you that idea? You live in France, your country was just recently crippled because the oil got too expensive. "Everyone what they want" ey.
You have the money to buy a game every month. Good for you. I don''t see you sending that money off to a third-world country to save a poor child from dysentery! You are just as greedy as every last one of us, and I am no exception. You''d love to change the system as long as it benefits YOU!
Well hey, it doesn''t work that way, and it never will, because of this simple economic principle:

quote: The Scarcity Of Resources
As there are never enough resources to give everyone everything that they would like, economics is concerned with finding the balance so that given the available resources, they are allocated to give the maximum of comfort possible.

People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~

i don´t wanna problem with anyone(i already have enough ones), see? it gone, is not more here who talk it.

but my point is: if i can buy legal games, i buy it( all my pc games a legal( i buyed it with magazines). and during the saturn era legal saturns games was expensive. but they are there so i buyed it, what i can´t do now since the economical crisis that brazil is in now.

and in teory, i can go to a tribunal to see if the my psx games are legal or not. why? becouse they are only protect by international laws, not national ones, if i remenber well this even happened sometimes ago with a company that used a pirated copy of a software that don´t have a national copyright. weird don´t? in brazil anything can happen when you have money

and the truth is they don´t care about us. and in brazil pirated software is somehow "legal", when i get a pirate game i don´t do like i´m geting drugs or something, is in a store like any other one.

i live in a coutry that there people that won 150 bucks for month to live( it is not enough not even for food). the govern don´t care about us, and there no way out. here to you have money to buy pirated stuff you must be someone that owns a realy good job.
here in brazil there only one law that works "the strong survive". is a war here my friend. believe me.

and about buy things on amazon, well you think that i don´t tried it yet?? they don´t make imports of eletronic/toys articles
and i already tried all the stores that appear at EGM magazine, and most of it don´t make imports. thre was ones that maked but after the finantial crisis of brazil a single game will end more that 250 bucks!! and i can´t pay it ( remenber a normal person here own more or less 500 bucks for month to buy food, cloths etc..)

the 3d max don´t was a example how expensive a software is, is how dificult to find especialized software. i never saw i legal copy of it to sell here, the same happens to compilers and less general software.

about my computer. my mom praticaly gived one arm to buy it to me.( it costed 1600R$ !!!!!!!! my mom is paying about 300 by month since march, i think that she finish paying it last month)

well thats all, no more talk on the subject.


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There´s no ugly woman
You that didn´t drink enough
A brazilian popular belief

Edited by - The Alchemist on September 14, 2000 4:59:11 AM