Even more critically, a small percent of people will find a way to turn it into a lawsuit. "You said it was because of X but it is really because of {protected status}."

With that in mind, don't you find the world we live in perverse?

Like, hiring someone is a kind of non-compelling, entirely optional thing. It's within your self-fulfillment. Most individuals never hire any other person in their entire life (if you don't count "hiring" a plumber or getting your car repaired). It's your decision whether to hire someone at all, or who to hire, or who not to hire. At least, you'd think it is!

But if you don't hire someone, and you are kind enough to tell them why they weren't your choice, you can actually be dragged to court... now I wonder when Apple will realize that they can sue you for damages if you don't buy their products.

Well, to be fair many of these people got their post-secondary education. They chose which classes they would be taught, and they got marks and other feedback on all their work. If they missed a deadline, they would appeal and usually be granted an extension. If they did not get the mark they wanted, they would appeal and be granted a better mark. If the first appeal didn't give them the desired results, they would escalate and maybe even have mommy and daddy hover down and Take Care Of Things.

So it's what they were taught.

If the real world doesn't match expectations the real world must change.

Bregma goes back to brewing another cup of hot cynicism.

I will spam to every one of them.

bros, sending to big companies doesn't work. I decided lower my aim. :mellow:

There are 358 game studios in England, I will spam to every one of them. Goal is to get feedback from somewhere. :cool:

But I will do that in the summer because first I need to improve my portfolio. Life sucks.

ok,

So, read up to page 1, usually when I give advice, I read all others before I give my own, so I synthesize, and cover new ground, but 5-6 pages is a bit much.

I'm not sure where the OP is in this topic, but here's my 2 sense.

the degree, the professors, the school resources are all worth it, but there is a part of uni most forget, cuz their working so hard to learn from the aforementioned aspects.

Your Classmates/ Peers

University is one of the few places and times in a person's life, where people like you, around your age, are all just right there.

That is one of the biggest things I regret about school, is that I was so focused on doing well & my remote projects, that I hardly networked or dated at all.

I opted to stay online, and keep in touch with people like yall on forums, and other gaming networks I used to be involved in. It was because I chose to keep that network, instead of exploreing all the social options off the bat, that I didn't try as much as I should have.

Sure, I made the most of it in my last year and a half, but all the other times, I was just coasting.

If you still really feel your not that engaged, then go find clubs, go find a lab or institute on campus that matches your career aspirations.

Network like hell, I know, I know, when older people told me to do the same in school, I shrugged it off too, but when you enter the workforce, it's really so much more important to know the right people.

You know the saying, it's not what you know, but who you know?

Well,I put it as, it's what you tell the people you know. (you need both)

Hell, I did my project while I was at school, and that was impressive enough to most people.(it's about keeping yourself busy, and time management.)

Instead of being a kid, and complaining about how you don't fit, and how your board with where you are, why don't you do what game designers do, and build a place you do?

If you do well, you will have friends and classmates that will be a banked in support group, and if your really as smart as you say you are, then Find a professor, and offer to work for them in their lab.

I'm one of the few people who has published research under my belt as an undergrad, that's because I turned my hobby into research.

I used the people and assets at my disposal, and built a better life for myself.

Look,

I've reviewed 100s of resumes for my project, you reminded me of one application. This guy applies, and he's all excited, he sends me his resume, and it said he went to graduate school, didn't finish, because he didn't attend classes. Rest of his resume looks stellar.( most applicants have Bachelors or are in process)

My 1st question to him was what happened there, and he told me how he just didn't feel it was worth his time. If he thinks that about what he's paying for, how will I get better results from him for a volunteer project? (He obviously didn't get in.)

He might as well just take it off his resume.

Adding that you attended school, and not finishing on a resume hurts you more, than if you would have left it out all together.

If your goal is to get into AAA games development a degree is required for your field. It just is.

How do most companies screen candidates?

They start with undergrad school rankings.

My dad explained it to me like this, how is a company meant to screen the best? How can they in a week or a few hours figure out more than the years of school selection and standardized testing?

They can't.

So they piggyback on that to find the best people.

This is why undergrad is so important.

Another example?

One of my friends had the grades to go to any ivy league for undergrad, he got an invitation from Columbia.

He decided to go to a state school, since it was more convenient. and so he could stay in his comfort zone.

He now has a masters, from the same school, and graduated ~6 months ago. Still no job offer at all.

He was a big fish in a small pond, and could have been a big shark in a huge ocean, but he didn't want to risk it.

He got to the top of his tier, instead of going up to the next level, and the next above that, which he had the chops for, he chose to stay at the lower level.

Employers will never know that by his resume nor by talking to him.

He nor anyone else will likely not know he belongs in platinum instead of bronze league.

He told me just the other day, how he wished there was more school, he wants to go for his PHD, but he needs experience 1st.

He also told me how he wish he could just be "paid" to go to school. (It's not just about learning, it's about how you apply it.)

Bottom line is, he could have done better, but he chose not to.

His school choice will follow him the rest of his career.

If your applying to jobs for a full time position, hoping that one will pick you up and you don't need to finish school, then your dead wrong.

I've only heard of that happening from a teammate who is going to Digipen,apparently it's so tough there, some make it to 3rd year and get offers.

Look for internships, there are special hiring categories for those still in school, which are less strict than full time,part time contract.

Make sure your portfolio is relevant to the company your applying to. (sounds straight forward enough, but you would not believe how many people don't do that)

If you want to do 3D games, have a 3D games portfolio, if you want to do mobile, have a mobile games portfolio, 2D? VR? etc.etc.

The more targeted you are, the closer you'll get, the higher the chance you will get your work seen my a hiring manager who understand and respects your work to the fullest potential.

That's what I did, and I just had an interview with the guys who make call of duty, they told me I was the 2nd pick. Which was a huge motivator. (I feel so close, and that all my years of doing and learning things may be finally paying off.)

Use your time wisely, you'll never get it back.

I grew up with my parents telling me that everything has to be fair and honest and finding a job because you know people is bad.

Well Thanks, glad I could be of service.

At least you fall into the category of people who listen to advice that they asked for , and am humble about it.

You know how many people ask for feedback on gamedev related issues (or life in general), and when you tell them what you think, get all defensive? (A lot, regardless of age and background)

All I'm asking is for people to try and consider it, with an open mind, some can't do that.

As for your advice, thanks, I already think that way for the most part. I am where I am because of those decisions, not in spite of them.

As for job/ internship applications.

No one is entitled to feedback.

ever, on anything.

Especially a job application.

Look at it this way, it's not their job to tell you why you didn't make it, it's your job to be introspective enough to try and figure it out.

If they gave you feedback, they would have to give everyone else who didn't make it feedback.

Who has time for that?

Definitely not for people who their not paying.

Here's another way of thinking about it.

What would you do with that information?

Sure, you can try and use it to improve for the next time, but what if they lied to you? what if they didn't know what their talking about? What if they don't even have a concrete thing they can point to? (it being a gut decision)

It's the same reason why most people don't ask why they didn't get to the next step, if they don't contact you after the 1st date.

Knowing and not knowing are equally bad, bottom line is you didn't get in, and most likely didn't even get your work seen by a person, just filtered out through an applicant tracking system (ATS).

If however, you get to talk to a recruiter or a hiring manager, you may be able to ask, but they don't need to tell you.

But asking why an ATS screened you out before then, is a question you ask yourself and maybe people who know you.

Each company and each recruiter has their own way of prioritizing things, knowing how they do things in one situation is not always helpful for all others.

And a 3rd way to see it, is why not use that ambiguity to make your self better in all aspects?

Without them pointing out one part of you they didn't like, and you focusing on it, work on every part of you to become the best you can be.

Your job application is meant to highlight that effort, and help link it to what they need at that time.

This is why you need to customize each resume and cover letter for the position and the company your applying for at that moment.

Sure, it's a lot of work, sure it's time consuming. Thus is the grind. And if you can't follow instructions coming in, how can you be expected to do so when your paid?

Honestly, by the course of this convo, your not there yet.

Focus on making your time at school the best you can. (Across the board).

The 1st thing any hiring manager or ATS system does is to see who followed instructions (to the letter). All other applicants, instant reject. (no resume or portfolio viewing)

Hell,I do that a lot too, even tho I'm not paying people. (80% of the time)

They want you to try and make it easier for them to review your application, if you can't make things easy for them coming through the door, how can you do so later?

Be careful tho,

There are some big name brand companies, or wannabe name branders that take advantage of this, and only accept applicants who filled out full profiles on their site, no uploading resumes, no connecting to linked in. All must be filled out by hand on their forms.

(I personally think that's just too much to ask for)

It's their way of seeing who really wants to be there, and of course it's good for their internal systems, but it doesn't respect the job seeker as much as it should.

And yes,

It's good to look for jobs the honest way.

An HR guy for 10 years told it to me like this, if your not honest with the employer coming in, you'll need to keep those lies going if you get in, and then ever after.