I think it might be a good idea not to set a minimum spec. It is the contenders risk that his game is not being judged by many judges if he develops a game that requires an high end system.

I guess the same goes for developing a Linux game. If not many judges have Linux or don't want to install it / run a live cd (running a live cd might not even be an option because graphics drivers are required), your game won't be reviewed by many judges.

Personally I am using an AMD Phenom quad core running on 2.4Ghz with 4GB memory and an Radeon HD4870 with 512MB memory (onboard sound, I guess its realtek or so). Running Ubuntu Linux and Windows Vista x64. My entry will probably require OpenGL 3.x, therefore DirectX 10 class hardware with decent drivers. I will probably try to make my game for the Linux and the Windows platform (Windows XP and Windows Vista, as OpenGL 3.x can run under both), but I'm not sure yet if that is feasible (I haven't done much programming for Windows yet).

So I might be at high risk of not many judges being able to run my entry (mainly depending on whether I'll be able to make a Windows version). But that will be my choice.

Would it be a good idea only to allow non-contenders who have at least 100 posts (or perhaps 50) on these forums to judge to prevent clones? For those who submitted an entry this limit wouldn't be necessary. However for those only here to judge it could be useful to make sure there are not just a couple of clones of contenders.

Not sure if this would be necessary or preferable. Its just an idea.

I think this contest just might be the incentive I need to stop being a hermit. Count me in.

As for the elements... As long as they are not so disparate as to be unworkable, or so specific that everyone ends up creating the same game, most anything should be good. Here are some possibilities:

hope
despair
constriction
escape
horizon
epoch
time
flow
entropy
permanence
pressure

Quote: Original post by TheFlyingDutchman
Would it be a good idea only to allow non-contenders who have at least 100 posts (or perhaps 50) on these forums to judge to prevent clones? For those who submitted an entry this limit wouldn't be necessary. However for those only here to judge it could be useful to make sure there are not just a couple of clones of contenders.

Not sure if this would be necessary or preferable. Its just an idea.

Now I don't know if we have an agreement here,but I believe only people who submit a game should be allowed to judge?
If this is not required we will create an ip filter,but this is not as secure as the suggestion above.
What you are suggesting seems not acceptable for me (since I probably have less than 50 posts,although I haven't checked).
Still I'm strongly for the method I described at the start of this post.

About requirements :
First,I think the screenshot ability is ridiculous. I haven't ever encountered a game which don't allow this,but even if someone intentionally do this it still doesn't matter,since the user will send the screenshots himself on the website,to promote his entry.It is in his interest to do so.
Then about the minimum spec :
Just to give some information I will post my system spec.
- AMD 1.5GHz single core
- 7300GT 128MB DDR3
- 1GB Ram
- Xp,Vista and Ubuntu
When I played some games I've been saying to myself many times : "Why do they make this feature required? Sure,my pc is weak,but this game seems interesting. And if it ran at 22 - 24 fps it would be even more interesting,though no as pretty as at 15 fps".
You see,its really up to you if you decide to be nice and allow poorer users to enter your supermarket. Your gains would be greater if you do though.
On the other side its not always efficient to broaden your public.I think I will target SM 2.0 hardware,but do some extras for those who have more than that.

Finally about how "literal" should we accept the elements.
I believe if the element is as specific as train it should be a train.That's why I would avoid any terms, and that's why its so hard to pick good elements.

[Edit]

Quote:
hope
despair
constriction
escape
horizon
epoch
time
flow
entropy
permanence
pressure

One of the elements you put here is my personal favorite,that I wanted to propose myself,but didn't get to that.Very good elements list overall.
While I am at this I will add an element that should be interesting "purpose" or "destiny". Pretty common in games and various movies and a lot of potential.

Quote: Original post by ne0_kamen

Quote: Original post by TheFlyingDutchman
Would it be a good idea only to allow non-contenders who have at least 100 posts (or perhaps 50) on these forums to judge to prevent clones? For those who submitted an entry this limit wouldn't be necessary. However for those only here to judge it could be useful to make sure there are not just a couple of clones of contenders.

Not sure if this would be necessary or preferable. Its just an idea.

Now I don't know if we have an agreement here,but I believe only people who submit a game should be allowed to judge?
If this is not required we will create an ip filter,but this is not as secure as the suggestion above.
What you are suggesting seems not acceptable for me (since I probably have less than 50 posts,although I haven't checked).
Still I'm strongly for the method I described at the start of this post.

I checked everybody who posted in this topic and I think the one with the lowest number of posts had 40 posts or so. Besides: the restriction would only count for those who are not entering the contest (so people who are only acting as judges).

I think it wasn't decided yet whether those who are not entering the contest were allowed to judge (or perhaps I missed something). Personally I believe it would be a great way to get more feedback, so why not allow other forum member to judge? The only thing is: it might be desirable to prevent clone accounts to judge and favor a specific game. Therefore I was suggesting a minimum post count of 50 (or 100) for those who are not entering the contest but are willing to judge.

Quote: Original post by TheFlyingDutchman
I think it wasn't decided yet whether those who are not entering the contest were allowed to judge (or perhaps I missed something). Personally I believe it would be a great way to get more feedback, so why not allow other forum member to judge? The only thing is: it might be desirable to prevent clone accounts to judge and favor a specific game. Therefore I was suggesting a minimum post count of 50 (or 100) for those who are not entering the contest but are willing to judge.

I would prefer that items be judged separately by the 3 groups: 'official' judges, fellow contestants, and some sort of 'community favourite' category in which everyone can vote.

Rationale: even though it is unlikely that we can arrange much in the way of prizes, placing highly in a competition is important 'street-cred', especially for indies just starting out. From that angle, I would like to keep the official judging as unbiased as possible.

Further, we should then set up so that judges and contestants are not allowed to vote for their own entries, which should be enough to keep those stages fair.

Quote: Original post by TheFlyingDutchman

I checked everybody who posted in this topic and I think the one with the lowest number of posts had 40 posts or so. Besides: the restriction would only count for those who are not entering the contest (so people who are only acting as judges).

I think it wasn't decided yet whether those who are not entering the contest were allowed to judge (or perhaps I missed something). Personally I believe it would be a great way to get more feedback, so why not allow other forum member to judge? The only thing is: it might be desirable to prevent clone accounts to judge and favor a specific game. Therefore I was suggesting a minimum post count of 50 (or 100) for those who are not entering the contest but are willing to judge.

My bad,I think I interpreted "non-contenders" as "people who registered but didn't send an entry". Still not sure how I got that thought.
Anyway,I think these "dedicated judges" should be some well known people,perhaps years since gd.net registration and posts count should be a plus when you apply for this job.

Quote: Original post by swiftcoder
I would prefer that items be judged separately by the 3 groups: 'official' judges, fellow contestants, and some sort of 'community favourite' category in which everyone can vote.

I agree. A low number of official judges that are committed to the task and have set judging criteria feels important (whether they themselves enter the contest or not), preferably somewhat experienced in game design or having judged contests before. It's already evident people have very different opinions on what is important for their games, so it doesn't seem at all like a good idea to have everyone judge, since people would use very different criteria. Judging can't be done based only on how one enjoys the game, since everyone likes different genres etc, but rather must be based on objective analysis, so people interested in game design would be the optimal judges.
Especially when there are no prizes etc, when the judging of your game is basically everything you get out of the contest, it feels very important to receive good feedback. Contestant judges would likely lead to people rating games using similar technology to their own interests high, even if unintentional (we all value different aspects of development differently).
That being said community and contestant voting would definitely be nice to have. Perhaps a separate category, like 'technology', 'production', 'gameplay', 'popularity', where popularity is the community rating.
This topic from the last contest is pretty good: http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=503485.

A lot of questions and ideas popped up. Here are some answers:

The judging:
- It has been agreed that all contestants will be able to judge all entries besides their own. To judge an entry, the judge must provide several paragraphs of feedback on the entry plus rating, using a feedback form available in the Judging section of the website. Moreover, some people who are not contestants will be able to judge. If anybody wants to, he will have to send me, the contest organiser (even though it's a community contest, I still consider myself the organiser), an email that tells why he should be a judge. If I find it acceptable, he'll become one. We can discuss "acceptability requirements" on this topic.
- There is, so far, no kind of "offical judging-community judging." It would be pretty hard to get official, qualified judges that would do their work on time. So, everyone can judge. Optionally, we can give "power coefficients" to judges. For example, a judge with power 2 has twice as much influence over the result as a judge with power 1. Then we could have qualified judges with power 3, for example, and contestants with power 1.

The name and logo:
- The contest has been named UFEC - Unofficial Four Elements Contest. The current logo, so far, is a placeholder and very poor. I encourage anyone with artistic skills to submit a better one. The logo can implement the four original elements (but doesn't need to) and it can implement the acronym, UFEC (if it doesn't, the word UFEC will be place on bottom of it or on the right.

The site:
- The new site is in the works and progresses well. On October 30th we begin. No delays.

The elements:

The Elements

I tried to make some element combinations myself and whow, it's hard. I found out inventing random good elements is easy but putting them together is not. Therefore, I have decided to do this:

Here will be listed many element combinations. You can suggest your own element combinations or comment on the existing ones. There are three types of feedback:
1. Suggestion of new element combination
2. Comment about an existing element combination
3. Scoring each of the element combinations on a scale 1-5 where 1 is bad and 5 is excellent.
I encourage all to do at least some of these feedback methods AND to send it to me as PM. Do NOT post to this thread comments or scoring. That would spoil the surprise.
When the comments/feedback is gathered, the element combinations with the most points/positive comments will advance to the next, secret, round, where I will randomly select one of them. If doubt arises about the choosing of the elements, I will make public all the PMs I receive this way.
The suggestions/comments deadline is October 21st. Hurry, please. The more people send feedback and suggestion, the better elements we will have.

Full moon - Chain Reaction - Diplomacy - Nature
Epidemic - Electricity - Fortress - High temperature
Eclipse - Time - Ice - Protector
Superstition - Distress Signal - Fire - Force (where force means magic, life force or some other energy that can be manipulated in a similar way)
Avalanche - Power - Vessel - Beast
Force - Electricity - Chain Reaction - Nature
Protector - Religion - Time - Fortress
Writing - Science - Transormation - Prismatic light
Waterfall - Portal - Prismatic light - Unhappy end
Alternate worlds - Light - Tug-of-war - Agreement
Heat - Delusions - (something) - (something)
Chain Reaction - Force - Light/Darkness - Current (of air, water, etc.)
Chain Reaction - Force - Light/Darkness - Sound
Evolution - Proliferation - Water - Fire
Despair - Horizon - Flame - Cloads
Ocean Floor - Meteor - Shadow - Force-balance

Combinations will be added here through the week as I receive suggestions.
An example feedback could be:

Quote:
Hi Lesan,
here's my feedback and suggestions:
1 Full moon - Chain Reaction - Diplomacy - Nature
2 Epidemic - Electricity - Fortress - High temperature
2 Eclipse - Time - Ice - Protector
3 Superstition - Distress Signal - Fire - Force (where force means magic, life force or some other energy that can be manipulated in a similar way)
3 Avalanche - Power - Vessel - Beast
3 Force - Electricity - Chain Reaction - Nature
4 Protector - Religion - Time - Fortress
4 Writing - Science - Transormation - Prismatic light
4 Waterfall - Portal - Prismatic light - Unhappy end
4 Alternate worlds - Light - Tug-of-war - Agreement
5 - (You could add Breath and Meditation) Heat - Delusions - (something) - (something)
5 - Chain Reaction - Force - Light/Darkness - Current (of air, water, etc.)
5 - Chain Reaction - Force - Light/Darkness - Sound
5 - Evolution - Proliferation - Water - Fire
5 - Despair - Horizon - Flame - Cloads
nocomment - Ocean Floor - Meteor - Shadow - Force-balance

I think you picked up quite bad element rows, Lesan. You are an absolute noob. You should not make this contest because you are just some fool who thinks he's the master of the world.

[Edited by - Lesan on October 15, 2009 10:32:19 AM]

I have red about the elements scoring,but wouldn't it be more elegant to score them on the site (since the registration system is basically ready).
This way everyone can keep track which and how he scored all elements set,as more and more suggestions are added.
Suggestions for new elements sets could still be done here though.

I will add one here :
Faith - Prophecy - Love - Anger
Another one (even another kind)
Comedy - Tragedy - Puzzle - Action