I''m one of those people who''s "not just an artist". I''m first and foremost a game designer, and if I''m not impressed with the game''s design, I''m not ging to waste my time. So basically anything I''m on the design team for gets way higher priority than a design that''s already set in stone when I hear about it, unless the set-in-stone design happens to be super wonderful, and I''ve never seen that happen.
Also, people asking for artists to work for them don''t seem to grasp how long it takes to make good art. I once made an animated sprite set of 128 pieces, and that project alone took about a month. Of course I''m doing my art in addition to going to school, but so is everybody else on this forum, or they''re working. If a game design team expects to get one artist and have them do all the art for the game, that sets of major alarm bells for me.
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so, what do the artists want?
You people need logic, how is a programmer going to show you a example\demo or what ever if he can never get an artist. So if no one gives them art then they have to example to give you unless they make the art them self, but for people like me, i can''t draw worth s***. So how am i going to give you a example.
Simple.
Good code can exist without good artwork.
Suppose I was working on an RPG. If I didn''t have any artists in my "company", I would probably be drawing everything myself. Naturally, all of the game''s artwork would suck. However, this says nothing about my programming skills, or the quality of the code. Suppose the game is fully playable, and has all the features one would expect in an RPG. Wouldn''t that be a fairly good example of what I can do?
~~~~~~~~~~
Martee
Good code can exist without good artwork.
Suppose I was working on an RPG. If I didn''t have any artists in my "company", I would probably be drawing everything myself. Naturally, all of the game''s artwork would suck. However, this says nothing about my programming skills, or the quality of the code. Suppose the game is fully playable, and has all the features one would expect in an RPG. Wouldn''t that be a fairly good example of what I can do?
~~~~~~~~~~
Martee
What alot of people don''t grasp is art is a huge asset,
its alot of work,
anyone who says they are serious about their project but can''t afford to allocate a little money isn''t really convincing in terms of faith in their own work,
I am helping a startup with a demo, but they are paying me for my work, its not alot, adds up maybe $2 an hour, but its something, it shows me they are serious and saves me trouble of worrying about future compensation,and theres no problems whatsoever, I do what they ask within time limits and end of story,our roles are clearly defined, they are the employer and I am the employee, so far its going very smoothly
I think anyone who is looking for a VOLUNTEER artist must just give up their vision to some degree, because art is such a large part of the game the only way of finding an artist and being fair in my opinion is forming and developing a project TOGETHER, make the relationship first and the game plan second, not the other way around, and anyone who can''t see the touch of arrogance in that will never understand what a balanced team relationship is really about, and will probably have a harder time finding a volunteer artist,
hope that rant helps:-)
its alot of work,
anyone who says they are serious about their project but can''t afford to allocate a little money isn''t really convincing in terms of faith in their own work,
I am helping a startup with a demo, but they are paying me for my work, its not alot, adds up maybe $2 an hour, but its something, it shows me they are serious and saves me trouble of worrying about future compensation,and theres no problems whatsoever, I do what they ask within time limits and end of story,our roles are clearly defined, they are the employer and I am the employee, so far its going very smoothly
I think anyone who is looking for a VOLUNTEER artist must just give up their vision to some degree, because art is such a large part of the game the only way of finding an artist and being fair in my opinion is forming and developing a project TOGETHER, make the relationship first and the game plan second, not the other way around, and anyone who can''t see the touch of arrogance in that will never understand what a balanced team relationship is really about, and will probably have a harder time finding a volunteer artist,
hope that rant helps:-)
I am ok with a 3d modeller and reasonable with a mouse and camera, but terrible with a pen and paper so i have never tried to turn professional. I have being involved with a number of games, The first couple the coder never coded a single line!!! So i did loads of graphics they were approved and then nothing. Since then i have done models textures and landscapes for a 3d tank game all that was left to program was the menu screen.. the programmer got bored, project got dumped. The same thing has happened twice since, so i have given up with other programmers i am going to do it myself. I start Direct Draw this week. I should have a game by the end of the decade.
Helpo, you are one of those who post asking for some art, knowing perfectly your projects will lead to nowhere. I don''t want to flame you, it''s just a question of planning a bit what you want to do, what the steps of the project are, and where you want to get.
As all the other people have tolden you, you don''t need art while creating the engine (I used to put text in the sprites, to know what I was dumping to screen). Once everything''s allright, it is time to hire the artist SHOWING YOUR PROGRAM SO FAR.
I have agreed to create art for some groups, and they''ve always let me down. Lack of organization makes this kind of projects fail, that''s the reason we are asking for something "touchable" before entering the group. I, myself, use to ask for the design doc, and if it seems to be ok, and they have some of the work advanced I may start to create art.
As someone has tolden you before, creating art takes *MUCH MORE TIME* than programming, from my experience. I can create a scroll routine in one night, but cannot create all those running keyframes of my knight in the same time. So, it is silly to pretend that I''ll waste all that time for something that won''t see the light.
GIMME THE DEMO! GIMME THE ENGINE! ...and we can start to talk about art.
"Nec spes, nec metus" - Gladiators'''' motto
As all the other people have tolden you, you don''t need art while creating the engine (I used to put text in the sprites, to know what I was dumping to screen). Once everything''s allright, it is time to hire the artist SHOWING YOUR PROGRAM SO FAR.
I have agreed to create art for some groups, and they''ve always let me down. Lack of organization makes this kind of projects fail, that''s the reason we are asking for something "touchable" before entering the group. I, myself, use to ask for the design doc, and if it seems to be ok, and they have some of the work advanced I may start to create art.
As someone has tolden you before, creating art takes *MUCH MORE TIME* than programming, from my experience. I can create a scroll routine in one night, but cannot create all those running keyframes of my knight in the same time. So, it is silly to pretend that I''ll waste all that time for something that won''t see the light.
GIMME THE DEMO! GIMME THE ENGINE! ...and we can start to talk about art.
"Nec spes, nec metus" - Gladiators'''' motto
this is to tayete:
WTF. Does it look like i care if your past groups have let you down, nope. That does not mean that all your future ones will to. And i might not finish this project that i am working on, but how cares. As long as i get some experiance from it. And i never said that art work takes longer than programming.
WTF. Does it look like i care if your past groups have let you down, nope. That does not mean that all your future ones will to. And i might not finish this project that i am working on, but how cares. As long as i get some experiance from it. And i never said that art work takes longer than programming.
Well helpo, with that philosophy you''ll never make a team. People who will work with you want to know if you care about finishing your project or not. So, trying to find someone that works for free, saying that you just dont care about finishing the task...well, seems you won''t find anyone.
"Nec spes, nec metus" - Gladiators'''' motto
"Nec spes, nec metus" - Gladiators'''' motto
ok here it is, i am an artist, going to school now to learn the 3d and animation end. anyways here''s one fact it is important to remember. a good artist is rare. not everyone can be a good artist, that being said, why would a good artist reply to posts like the ones discussed in this forum? if the demand is high and the supply is low its obviously gonna be hard to find talent for free. i dont know what to tell you. i know you coders work just as hard. just do the best with what you have and maybe if you have an actual budget later on you can afford to pay.
some artists probably are stubborn and may not like constructive critisism ive known a few of those myself. not all artists are like that. in fact any professional artist has to be able to take critisism. in the creative arts you are usually using someone else''s ideas, but if they are paying you than they should get what they want for sure.
if they are not paying you, than you should still try and work with them as much as possible.
i myslef am part of a dev team in a sort of volunteer role, i love doing it, i love games, and i found a pretty good team.
some artists probably are stubborn and may not like constructive critisism ive known a few of those myself. not all artists are like that. in fact any professional artist has to be able to take critisism. in the creative arts you are usually using someone else''s ideas, but if they are paying you than they should get what they want for sure.
if they are not paying you, than you should still try and work with them as much as possible.
i myslef am part of a dev team in a sort of volunteer role, i love doing it, i love games, and i found a pretty good team.
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