Pax
I hope you''re wrong, I hope that there are enough people who are true roleplayers to sustain an entirely player-run roleplaying game. But I guess we''ll find out soon enough =)
theRaskell
Actually it is possible to run away. As to all the possible scripting options you can place on your AI, they haven''t released detailed information. Only an example
In Dawn the world is comepletey player run. At the beginning of the game there are no cities, no newbie "zones," etc. Players band together, build cities, nations etc... Those hundreds or thousands of players work with or against each other in PvP and PvE. As to the GM to player ratio, in Dawn there will not be any GMs, though there will occasionally be divine intervention (most likely only early on). Such an example would be a person who decides they don''t like the game anymore so they''re going to try and kill as many players (considerably lower than them) before they themselves are killed, shouting I''m the MASTER PK SLAYER!!, just to be an ass. A "god" or "gods" may then intervine on behalf of the players. This isn''t to say they won''t allow random, suicidal PvP. That is a very valid RP persona (insanity, vengence, etc). What they will intervine on is non-RP "stuff." Dawn is an enforced RP game. That is the only interaction between "GMs" and players. There is no ooc mode, discussion, etc. Playes must fend for themselves.
As far as PvP being the only element in Dawn (or Atriarch, the only other perma death game out there that I know of) it just simply isn''t so. I don''t have time to go into the details of it, but if you''re interested go to www.atriarch.com or www.glitchless.com I used a PvP scenario as an example in defense of perma death but that by far is not the only defense or advantage.
Amarok Windburn
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PvP and Perm Death....Good combo?
re: ahw
We should discuss perm death now as a game design issue becuase its our responsibility not to create work that goes nowhere.
I love Game Design and it loves me back.
Our Goal is "Fun"!
Edited by - Paul Cunningham on September 1, 2000 2:51:32 AM
We should discuss perm death now as a game design issue becuase its our responsibility not to create work that goes nowhere.
I love Game Design and it loves me back.
Our Goal is "Fun"!
Edited by - Paul Cunningham on September 1, 2000 2:51:32 AM
What I was saying Paul, is that discussing perma death or not is not the proper to make sense of it.
If you want things to make sense, then first deal with the root problems. For instance, in RealLife, if you are discussing about violence at school, thievery by children, etc, you should first of all discuss the lack of education, before talking about the influence of games, of TV, of music, and whatever excuses...
So if we talk about perma death, we ahve to talk about how did we get there, why do people die, what reasons do people have to be pissed off with dying, is death more or less present than in real life, what is the influence of the death upon the way to play, to act, would people be interested in roleplaying rather than seeing the game as an arcade game where the goal is to live the longest possible (in oppostion with RP where the goal would be to live as fully as possible, and die bravely, I guess
)
etc.
Because if we only talk about "permadeath : pro or against", you end up with the same bullsh!t debate than you would get on a Gerry Springer show ...
Personnaly, I would like to go a bit deeper than that. If you can make understand people that dying is a natural process, and not a game over, maybe we could go a bit further in game design.
So I won''t say I am pro or against. First, I''d like to know what kind of life am I gonna get, worry about it, do as much as I can, and when death comes, I should not have any reason to be worried, should I ? (or is that RealLife I am talking about ?
)
youpla :-P
If you want things to make sense, then first deal with the root problems. For instance, in RealLife, if you are discussing about violence at school, thievery by children, etc, you should first of all discuss the lack of education, before talking about the influence of games, of TV, of music, and whatever excuses...
So if we talk about perma death, we ahve to talk about how did we get there, why do people die, what reasons do people have to be pissed off with dying, is death more or less present than in real life, what is the influence of the death upon the way to play, to act, would people be interested in roleplaying rather than seeing the game as an arcade game where the goal is to live the longest possible (in oppostion with RP where the goal would be to live as fully as possible, and die bravely, I guess
)etc.
Because if we only talk about "permadeath : pro or against", you end up with the same bullsh!t debate than you would get on a Gerry Springer show ...
Personnaly, I would like to go a bit deeper than that. If you can make understand people that dying is a natural process, and not a game over, maybe we could go a bit further in game design.
So I won''t say I am pro or against. First, I''d like to know what kind of life am I gonna get, worry about it, do as much as I can, and when death comes, I should not have any reason to be worried, should I ? (or is that RealLife I am talking about ?
)youpla :-P
An idea I had with perma-death in games was to send characters to an afterlife world, which is a twisted mirror of the real world. The real world would be the "nicer" place, so many people would want to be there instead, making the game alot like perma-death. (This setup also has the benefit of allowing really cool classes. Like a necro that can summon characters temporarily from one world to the other.)
Anyway, I thought it was a neat idea.
Jesse Chounard
Anyway, I thought it was a neat idea.
Jesse Chounard
quote: Original post by Amarok Windburn
I hope you''re wrong, I hope that there are enough people who are true roleplayers to sustain an entirely player-run roleplaying game. But I guess we''ll find out soon enough =)
I hope I''m wrong, too.
Pax
It absolutely works, but only if you over haul issues with experience, combat and othersuch issues. Essentially, in order to have PVP and permadeath, you''d need to change the gameplay. Alot.
If these things are not in place, I agree with everyone else.
If these things are not in place, I agree with everyone else.
I started bouncing this idea off a friend last night over a few beers. The conversation worked its way into the idea of the players character having children so the he/she could continue play if there character dies. All material possesions could be passed on to the younger child. The younger childs attributes would be only a slight alteration of the mother and father. I should point out that this topic was single player orientated so we didn''t discuss how this could work in a massive multiplayer setting unfortunately.
We confirmed for this to work that there would have to be some control over time within the game to allow the player to move on at the right time. This time element is the crunch in the idea which would have to be solved first obviously.
I love Game Design and it loves me back.
Our Goal is "Fun"!
We confirmed for this to work that there would have to be some control over time within the game to allow the player to move on at the right time. This time element is the crunch in the idea which would have to be solved first obviously.
I love Game Design and it loves me back.
Our Goal is "Fun"!
I have been pondering such an idea for a time now Paul. I mentioned breifly in the doc about some form of family for the player, and since then I have been struggling to think of how such a system could allow for inheritance. It adds an element to the game of "find a loving wife, not too great a difficulty for winning" or "find the most powerful wife, but it''s bloody hard to get her".
I am still unsure as wether this would detract from the gameplay or not. It is good to see that there are others out there with similar opinions though
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft
"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy"
IOL (The list formerly known as NPCAI) - A GDNet production
Our Doc - The future of RPGs
Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
I am still unsure as wether this would detract from the gameplay or not. It is good to see that there are others out there with similar opinions though
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft
"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy"
IOL (The list formerly known as NPCAI) - A GDNet production
Our Doc - The future of RPGs
Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
If you had children then would you have to add the realism of having to supply for them? Thats another issue. Meanwhile your characters meant to be hero''ing around. Maybe that''s how you supply for them. Kind of like Robin Hood. I guess this goes back to that thread of "Character aging". But what if you don''t have children. Maybe you''d have to have the game start so the character already has children for it to work. Or it could simply be an optional element within the game.
How about, in an online massive multiplayer. If your character gained a high enough level then you will get the option to multiply. Then other people could play your children creating a real family online. The reason why i think that you should have to get to such a high level to have children is to make the player value them. This would work quite well i believe.
I love Game Design and it loves me back.
Our Goal is "Fun"!
How about, in an online massive multiplayer. If your character gained a high enough level then you will get the option to multiply. Then other people could play your children creating a real family online. The reason why i think that you should have to get to such a high level to have children is to make the player value them. This would work quite well i believe.
I love Game Design and it loves me back.
Our Goal is "Fun"!
You really do have some inspiration to add to this place don''t you? Well, I think that the children kind of add to the game as a whole... You want to get a player emotionally involved with the game, so you give them a wife which they love (we already went through this discussion) and then the obvious future for that is children. I think both may be dependant on level.
Something that is kind of off topic though: What if we don''t have a leveling system. Well, I am sure there is a way for measuring up the character, even if there are no levels as such...
Another great idea from Paul
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft
"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy"
IOL (The list formerly known as NPCAI) - A GDNet production
Our Doc - The future of RPGs
Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
Something that is kind of off topic though: What if we don''t have a leveling system. Well, I am sure there is a way for measuring up the character, even if there are no levels as such...
Another great idea from Paul
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft
"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy"
IOL (The list formerly known as NPCAI) - A GDNet production
Our Doc - The future of RPGs
Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
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